TOP topic - Raising with 2nd best hand 74-75 READ ME!

[POKhER]

Please pick up your copys of TOP and go to page 74-75.

We come to hand where sklansky estimates we have around 30% equity(chance to win pot) in a 4way hand. The pot is suppose to be big.

He recommends we raise when the better bets to drive the other 2opponents out of the hand. He then goes onto say something along the lines of: we now improve to 45% equity.He also says this play is ok due to the dead money in the pot.

Can someone tell me how:

Killing the field in 4way pot(25% of money in) with 30% Eauity(5% edge) is worse than putting 50% of money in with -5% edge as a 45% underdog.

I think i may have answered or come close to figuring it out in typing this post and analysing it myself. However i'd like opinions and discussion.

Thanks all.

[Kwaz]

Investment:5% of 2sb < Payoff: 15% of pot

[POKhER]

I'm not following, wheres 15% come from mate.

Oh wait you mean the 5% edge(in 4way pot) is so tiny and crappy its worth risking more money and giving us a bigger win % in a bigger pot as the %(45% from 25%) we now win makes up for the loss when we put in 2SB and lose?

Dam thats a mouthfull, hopefully you follow
Cheers.

[Kwaz]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm not following, wheres 15% come from mate.


[/ QUOTE ]

By raising, you increase your equity in the entire pot from 30% to 45%. = +15% of pot.

[sharpie]

Suppose the pot is 10BB. By raising and increasing our equity, we make 15% of that (.15 * 10 = 1.5BB). If we don't raise the flop and just let them overcall, assuming both opponents do call we make 5% of 10BB twice ((.05 *10)*2 = 1BB).

[Kwaz]

This is the extended version. I think these calculations are correct or very close to it. The calculations themselves aren't important, it's the principle behind it.

Assuming all 4 players just called preflop.

The pot is 5sb when it gets to you. You raise, knock out players behind, bettor calls.

8sb pot. You increase your equity to 45%. You've invested 3sb so far.

(8*.45)-3= .6

If you call. Pot is still 8sb (assuming other 2 call). You've invested just 2sb so far. Equity = 30%

(8*.3)-2= .4

.6 > .4 = you should raise.


It becomes more appropriate to do so, the bigger the pot becomes. Assume the same but with a preflop raise, increasing pot size to 12.

Raising - (12*.45)-3= 2.4
Calling - (12*.3)-2= 1.6

It's even worth running the risk of being 3bet -
(14*.45)-4 = 2.3

2.3>1.6 So, even raising and being 3bet is better than just calling in the big pot.

This is one of the major reasons why it is better to try and win the big pots. If you increase your equity by even 5% it is often worth the extra investment to try to fold other hands.

Hope this helps.

EDIT: The same principles are at work when it comes to protection with the best hand. The bigger the pot, the more important it is to fold other hands.