20/40 hand-settle a debate for me and my friend...

lil feller · #1 03-15-2006, 07:54 AM

B&M 20/40 game. My buddy has been in the game for a while, and is posting both blinds in the cutoff. I'm posting in the hijack, i'm new to the game.

My friend is a very solid TAG. The button is unknown to me at this time. The limper is a calling station.

Limper limps immediatly to my right. I look at T2o, I check my option. My friend checks. The button raises. Blinds fold. Limper calls. I call. So does my friend. 4way to the flop

J-8-2

limper checks and I bet. my friend raises. folded to me and I call.

Turn is an offsuit 3. I...?

Thoughts on preflop, flop and suggested turn action welcome.

lf

charlieD · #2 03-15-2006, 08:20 AM

preflop i fold
on the flop i check/fold
as you have played it i would call the flop raise and check/fold the turn (check/raise the turn if i improve)

flawless_victory · #3 03-15-2006, 08:27 AM

[ QUOTE ]
preflop i fold
on the flop i check/fold
as you have played it i would call the flop raise and check/fold the turn (check/raise the turn if i improve)

[/ QUOTE ]
agreed.
dont really see whats interesting here, i guess u did something on turn that wasnt fold, loks kinda ridic... preflop call is also silly...

lil' · #4 03-15-2006, 08:43 AM

I'm always looking for excuses to see flops, but I couldn't call preflop with this getting around 8 or 9 to 1 odds out of position.

On the flop I'll call a bet if things don't get too crazy, but I'm not betting it myself.

As you played it I check fold the turn.

elena_elphie · #5 03-15-2006, 03:44 PM

I am pretty loose in that spot preflop, like I would call w/ J7s or something, but I don't think T2o is even close.

Betting the flop is fine, though I am less enthusiastic due to the presence of the calling station, and a preflop raiser. If raised I call and chk/fold the turn. Your friend was a poster and could have all kinds of things, and the only real draw is T9. I'm guessing you are crushed by his range here, and you don't have odds to draw either.

You could bet/fold the turn if you think a bet has a decent amount of folding equity, but that would require a very specific read and I would almost never do it.

bobbyi · #6 03-15-2006, 03:50 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I am pretty loose in that spot preflop, like I would call w/ J7s or something, but I don't think T2o is even close.

[/ QUOTE ]
J7s really isn't that loose. I'm sure there are a lot of people here who would call with any two suited. Yeah, T2o is a bit much though. I'd even call here with many crappy offsuit connectors, but this hand just has nothing going for it.

lil feller · #7 03-15-2006, 07:22 PM

First, i made a mistake in the OP, the big blind called. So preflop i'm getting 9.5:1 to call, and i know my friend isn't going to 3 bet. I didn't think against their ranges that I was worse off then that at this juncture, so I called. I ran it on pokerstove with reasonable ranges for the people involved, and it ended up being close to break even, but edging towards a call.

On the flop I thought that the PFR would likely raise, even w/ overs, (the way he handled his chips when raising told me he was definately experienced, and he seemed pretty aggressive). I was hoping my friend would fold, the button would raise, and I could get some info on the BB and calling stations hands. When my friend raised I thought it could have been an 8, a J, or T9. Its important to note that any decent 8 or J and probably t9 he would have raised PF. My checking my option after a horrible player limps is a sure sign of weakness, and he would have raised any marginal or better holding, including JT+, A8, and probably T9.

I'm getting 13.5:1 to call the flop raise, and since i can rule out JT, TT, or 22 from his range i'm pretty sure that all 5 outs are clean. I call.

On the turn I check and he bets. 7.5:1, still pretty certain that he's got some goofy J and all my outs are clean. I also know he'll bet the river if I check, and he'll call a raise because he doesn't trust me. So now i'm getting 9.5:1, with implied. I need a little better then 8:1 to call, so I call.

River pairs the 2. I c/r, he calls, and MHIG. Is my logic totally wrong in this spot, and do you all think I was overestimating my outs? Is my math wrong?

more comments welcome,

lf

Dan BRIGHT · #8 03-15-2006, 08:09 PM

lol nice collusion

Dan BRIGHT · #9 03-15-2006, 08:11 PM

on a serious note, im a nit I fold preflop. If I feel fiesty im c/r'ing the flop. the way you played it ez fold on the turn

lil' · #10 03-15-2006, 08:49 PM

Do you call with 10-2o in the BB for a raise (I would if it were suited)? It's not that different in my mind. You're still OOP against the two guys you are worried about.

I see your thinking on the flop, but you're counting on a lot of things to break your way. Maybe your friend folds, maybe he doesn't. Maybe when the rasier raises the flop he is raising overcards, maybe he isn't. Maybe the other players fold to the raise, maybe they don't. When I flop lowest pair in a multiway pot, my goal is to see the turn cheaply, not try to put two bets in.

After you get popped on the flop it plays itself, but preflop and flop I think you are putting in too much.