Party .50/1 K10o - Kind of a play along....

SoulPower · #1 03-14-2006, 02:07 PM

Usually 'play along' type posts are successfully done by veteran posters that can coach other players and explain their decisions as the hand develops. I'm not one of those posters (yet). [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img] That being said, I think this hand, while not overly complex, has a few interesting spots that many players (including myself) may be able to learn from.

First orbit at table, so no real reads here:

Party Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (8 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is Button with T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, 3 folds, Hero calls, 1 fold, BB checks.

Flop: (4.50 SB) T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (4 players)
BB checks, UTG checks, UTG+1 bets, Hero ??

Do I go for overcalls here, or do I need to protect this hand with a raise?

car ramrod · #2 03-14-2006, 02:12 PM

raise, flush and straight draws are coming no matter what, might as well raise for value.

jacksoncrack · #3 03-14-2006, 02:14 PM

going for overcalls - it depends on how loose the table is. If they call down to the river with ace high for one bet on each street, Id go for the over call.

protecting your hand - its pretty much impossible to protect your hand if someone is actually on a flush draw.

if the game is tight, and the people will likely fold behind you anyway, i would raise and make whoever is on a flush draw pay for it. if it is loose, i would go for overcalls.

sarsen · #4 03-14-2006, 02:16 PM

[ QUOTE ]
raise, flush and straight draws are coming no matter what, might as well raise for value.

[/ QUOTE ]

yep.

ESKiMO-SiCKNE5S · #5 03-14-2006, 02:22 PM

raise regardless of any other factors

CaucasianAsian29 · #6 03-14-2006, 03:18 PM

:grunch:
I usually fold this preflop. The next best thing would be to come in with a raise though-usually don't do this. On the flop-you need to reraise.

SoulPower · #7 03-14-2006, 03:24 PM

[ QUOTE ]
raise regardless of any other factors

[/ QUOTE ]

After going back and looking at the hand I think this is very correct. Like others mentioned, flush draws are coming along no matter what so I don't think there is much you can do to protect. That being said, I took the other route and went for the overcalls which I think is a mistake. Then this happened on the turn:

Party Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (8 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is Button with T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, 3 folds, Hero calls, 1 fold, BB checks.

Flop: (4.50 SB) T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (4 players)
BB checks, UTG checks, UTG+1 bets, Hero calls, BB folds, UTG calls.

Turn: (3.75 BB) A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
UTG bets, UTG+1 raises, Hero ??

Brice · #8 03-14-2006, 03:38 PM

This is a situation where reads are critical. However, you missed a chance to take control of the hand on the flop. That is, in my opinion, the most important reason to raise. By establishing that you have a hand, both of these players will probably check to you on the turn. I figure they both just paired the ace and think it is good, since you showed no strength on the flop. I am calling down here.

Always keep in mind that raising does more than just protecting your hand. If you have positional advantage, use it!

deception5 · #9 03-14-2006, 03:54 PM

A few things to consider.

The preflop limp is very read dependent, because UTG and UTG+1 limped. These are the two players who should be playing the tightest at the table so unless they are very loose players you'll often find at least one of your cards dead versus something like KQ/KJ/AT or even worse the occasional TT/AK. That said I don't mind the limp, just be careful.

On the flop you must raise. Think of the number of hands that hit this flop. AK/AQ/AJ/AT/KQ/KJ/KT/QJ/QT/JT/T9/any 2 spades. There are quite a few turn cards which are going to give you a headache. Any broadway is going to be trouble and any 9 could potentially bring in the straight.

On the turn it is a bet and a raise to you. UTG could have a flush draw with the A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], AQ, AJ. He'd often check/raise QJ here as well as there's a good chance of trapping for double bets. So I'm not too worried about him. UTG+1 is more of a concern. We're basically hoping for a protection raise with AQ/AJ, but why would he bet the flop with those? If he semi-bluffed the flop with an oesd, it just came in. If he bet KQ on the flop raising the turn would be silly as he's putting in money with a hand drawing to few outs. The only likely hands I can give him are KT/AK/AT/TT/QJ/22. The pot is small and there's a decent chance of being outdrawn even when you are ahead. It sucks but I would just let it go, make a note on the players and move on. If the pot were larger or if I had some sort of note/stat on UTG+1 that he was slightly loose or aggressive I'd go ahead and 3-bet.

Fantam · #10 03-14-2006, 03:54 PM

That Ace looks as though it helped UTG, and it seems that UTG+1 doesnt care.

With 3 cards to a broadway now on the board, and the action, I doubt that your 2 pair is the best hand.

The pot is not big enough to make drawing to fill up to a full house profitable.

So I would fold to the turn raise. I think that you are most likely up against a better 2 pair, set or straight.