Stars $5.5 - bubble play with 99, small stack raise, big stack waiting

Maple Leafs · #1 03-13-2006, 12:59 PM

This was an odd SnG in that we didn't eliminate anybody until round five and the entire table was reasonably tight (compared to the usual maniacs at this level).

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t200 (4 handed) internettexasholdem.com

UTG (t1889)
Button (t3031)
Hero (t3420)
BB (t5160)

Preflop: Hero is SB with 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
UTG raises to t800, Button folds, Hero ???

UTG had been complaining about the tight play and encouraging people to start getting aggressive, but his play hadn't really reflected that. I don't think he's raising here without a pair, Ax or KQ at minimum.

BB seems reasonable and certainly not afraid to play back with a decent hand. I expect him to fold if he has rags, but call/push with anything decent.

If I make the final two I feel confident I could beat any of these players in a heads up situation.

Do I push here and hope big-stack lets me get heads up with the short-stack? Do I call, and if so what do I do if big-stack pushes? Or fold, let big stack do the dirty work and look for a better spot?

Snarf · #2 03-13-2006, 01:12 PM

I'm curious as to this statement:

"BB seems reasonable and certainly not afraid to play back with a decent hand. I expect him to fold if he has rags, but call/push with anything decent."

If you pushed in - what hands generally would you think BB calls with? AJo? KK AA only? What are we talking about here?

tigerite · #3 03-13-2006, 01:14 PM

I would flat call. If big stack pushes and small stack calls, I would call. If big stack pushes and small stack folds, I would fold. If big stack calls I would play a flop and call an all in from the small stack if checked around to him and he shoved, unless the flop was really bad.

Maple Leafs · #4 03-13-2006, 01:18 PM

If I call, I think he's calling with mid-pair or better, maybe any pair at all, and any two ace/face cards.

If I push, I think his range goes down but he still plays with a high ace or medium pair. If he can takes us both out he's heads up with a huge chip lead. My table image should be reasonably tight and a push should send a strong signal, but this is $5.5 and I doubt he's paying that much attention.

It's also possible that if I just call, he reads my weakness and pushes with a bigger range to get me out and make my chips dead.

tigerite · #5 03-13-2006, 01:21 PM

Well if you push and BB calls then UTG will fold everything except KK+, I hope you know that, so that's obviously terrible for you if he calls with any high ace.

Also frankly who cares if he pushes if you just call, if the small stack folds, guess what that means he is almost assured of bubbling, and you keep the ratio of his stack to your stack intact, i.e. he still remains the same 800 behind that he was, only now he has even less fold equity etc.

You're just trying to justify a push with fuzzy logic.

Maple Leafs · #6 03-13-2006, 01:25 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Also frankly who cares if he pushes if you just call, if the small stack folds, guess what that means he is almost assured of bubbling, and you keep the ratio of his stack to your stack intact, i.e. he still remains the same 800 behind that he was, only now he has even less fold equity etc.

[/ QUOTE ]
Makes sense. But what if i call, big stack pushes and small stack pushes? Run for the hills?

Snarf · #7 03-13-2006, 01:33 PM

[ QUOTE ]
so that's obviously terrible for you if BB calls with any high ace.

[/ QUOTE ]

my point in asking

[ QUOTE ]
Also frankly who cares if he pushes if you just call, if the small stack folds, guess what that means he is almost assured of bubbling, and you keep the ratio of his stack to your stack intact, i.e. he still remains the same 800 behind that he was, only now he has even less fold equity etc.

[/ QUOTE ]

NH Tigerite. Thanks for opening the door to that logic. I've played w/stuff like that in my head before, but never before had good logic/reasoning for it.

Maple Leafs · #8 03-13-2006, 02:03 PM

As it turns out, I folded. Weak? Probably.

But let's play it out...

UTG (t1889)
Button (t3031)
Hero (t3420)
BB (t5160)

Preflop: Hero is SB with 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
UTG raises to t800, 2 folds, BB raises to t1400, UTG calls t600.

Flop: (t2850) K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)

Let's say I'd called, and BB called. How do I play this awful flop? Check/fold mode, or take a shot at it?

tigerite · #9 03-13-2006, 02:48 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Also frankly who cares if he pushes if you just call, if the small stack folds, guess what that means he is almost assured of bubbling, and you keep the ratio of his stack to your stack intact, i.e. he still remains the same 800 behind that he was, only now he has even less fold equity etc.

[/ QUOTE ]
Makes sense. But what if i call, big stack pushes and small stack pushes? Run for the hills?

[/ QUOTE ]

I already said lol if BB pushes and small stack calls you would of course call. Seeing as you have to finish in exactly the order small stack > big stack > you to finish 4th.

Maple Leafs · #10 03-13-2006, 02:51 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Also frankly who cares if he pushes if you just call, if the small stack folds, guess what that means he is almost assured of bubbling, and you keep the ratio of his stack to your stack intact, i.e. he still remains the same 800 behind that he was, only now he has even less fold equity etc.

[/ QUOTE ]
Makes sense. But what if i call, big stack pushes and small stack pushes? Run for the hills?

[/ QUOTE ]

I already said lol if BB pushes and small stack calls you would of course call. Seeing as you have to finish in exactly the order small stack > big stack > you to finish 4th.

[/ QUOTE ]
Yep, saw that afterwards but had already posted and couldn't edit. My gut tells me that I would have folded in that situation, so this is helpful feedback.