$1/$2 middle pair, weak kicker

blee24 · #1 03-12-2006, 04:12 PM

No read on villian yet. I had planned to call a flop raise, but check-fold on the turn UI. I do this frequently.. is this line loosing me money?

Comments on all streets appreciated.

PokerStars 1/2 Hold'em (10 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is CO with T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
4 folds, MP2 calls, 1 fold, Hero calls, Button calls, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (5 SB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (5 players)
SB checks, BB checks, MP2 checks, Hero bets, Button raises, SB folds, BB folds, MP2 folds, Hero calls.

Turn: (4.50 BB) T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets, Button calls.

River: (6.50 BB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets, Button raises, Hero 3-bets, Button calls.

Final Pot: 12.50 BB

tom10167 · #2 03-12-2006, 04:36 PM

This hand is bad preflop. You only have one other person in the pot, why are you playing it? Big leak.

Your flop call here is probably losing unless you play very well on the turn and river(which I feel you did not)
Before the flop comes there is $5 in the pot, you bet, he raised, so 8:1 on your money and the odds of you hitting a second pair or trips on the turn is around 12%, and then you have to hope he doesn't have AT, A6, or any other ace is still drawing live on the river. If more money was in the pot this would be a fairly simple flop call, but as it stands I think you should fold.

Why do you bet the turn with no reads on the villain? You know he's betting the turn almost 100% of the time, so check raise?
His river raise, given the way the hand was played is strange, it either looks like FPS or bad play, I think a 3 bet is pretty good here.

Bonesy · #3 03-12-2006, 05:25 PM

I fold preflop. Flop could easily be a free card play. Without a read, I call the river raise.

cestlavie · #4 03-12-2006, 05:42 PM

*Grunch*

Apparently villain is on a flush draw on the flop, his raise indicating that he's trying to buy a free card. The other option is that he's holding an Ace with a middle kicker. Perhaps both. I would probably check-raise the turn here, but betting out avoids giving a free card in case the villain is chasing the flush. River 3-betting is hazardous. Make a crying call and hope your trips are good.

cestlavie · #5 03-12-2006, 05:47 PM

[ QUOTE ]
His river raise, given the way the hand was played is strange, it either looks like FPS or bad play, I think a 3 bet is pretty good here.

[/ QUOTE ]

Holding any two hearts I'd say villain played ok.

briddle · #6 03-12-2006, 06:07 PM

Grunch

I like to see more players in the hand ahead of me if I'm gonna play the suited connectors, but I doubt it's that bad of a choice (of course, if it had been raised behind you, that would really suck). I definitely bet that flop, the raise from the button probably means an ace. When you donk the turn, my only thought is that it must have scared button's weak ace. I think I just bet/call the river, since the three flush came in, but I'm kinda tight on the river.

bozlax · #7 03-12-2006, 06:08 PM

Four streets upon which to act; 6 actions taken. By my count, you got one right, the flop bet.

Not enough opponents to call preflop.

You're hosed when Button raises you on the flop, even without discounting your outs for the flush.

You had the perfect chance to pull 2 bets from him on the turn by c/r'ing and instead you let him off the hook by betting.

And finally, you bet AND 3-bet on the river when the flush draw that Vill was obviously on came in.

Welcome to Spewsville, population: you.

Oh, and to answer your question, whether to call his flop raise depends on whether you think you're behind, and if you're behind what are your pot odds for catching up? If you're using this line in this specific situation a lot, then, yeah, it's losing you money. Not as much as calling hands like this in these situation preflop, tho, I'll wager.

theghost · #8 03-12-2006, 06:30 PM

Flop call is ok.

Maybe try a turn c/r. I doubt your opponent is going to take a free card for the flush draw because he sent it around for 2 bets and folded out the field (not the brightest move for a 4-flush). I put him on an ace, and I think he'll bet it.

River 3 bet works, again, because i don't think he was on a flush draw.

blee24 · #9 03-12-2006, 08:16 PM

thanks for the comments. very helpful. Yeah, I have a lot of leaks to plug. I was trying to follow the SSH PF tight table recommendations, but maybe there weren't as many in the pot as they assume for those recommendations... although I'm not sure.. 5 players seems like a lot?

btw, villian had pocket 6's for a full house on the turn.

kslghost · #10 03-12-2006, 09:45 PM

It's not too horrible to call here if you've A) noticed a loose, passive preflop table, or B) realized that many people go too far with extremely weak holdings. I've noticed that once there are one or two callers, many people will tag along. Undoubtedly, something that isn't as true at a higher limit.

As for the flop bet and call, it's a tough situation because the button is very likely to hold something like AT or AJ, or as you've noticed, a set (where you are drawing virtually dead). I think with all the other kids folding (no money to pad the pot), you need to fold when it comes back around to you.