Tighty-whitey's downward spiral.

[Pokey]

I've got a problem, and I can't tell if it's all in my head (bad luck lately, bad table selection lately, etc.) or if I'm actually just crippling myself without knowing it.

So, I'm tight at the tables. I play a 16/9 game, give or take. If I find myself with a bad streak of cards, I can easily run below 8% VPIP. Now, when this happens for a few orbits, I get ridiculous respect for my raises. WAY too much respect. I find that at the tables, I either win a very small pot, or lose a huge one. My bets and continuation bets get folded around unless my opponent catches something monsterous, and then I get put in horrible situations with decent hands (TPTK) against LAGs who take shots at me. If I shoot back, *BLAMMO* they put me all-in. If I don't shoot back, they eat me alive, one preflop raise at a time.

SO, I tighten up even more to avoid having my bets and raises picked off by hyper-aggressive opponents. That means that I'm playing even fewer hands, losing even more from the blinds, and getting even MORE respect from my raises, meaning I barely break even, if that.

There's GOT to be a happy medium that lets me win a big pot on occasion, but still play tightly. Is there some "trick of the trade" for tight players that gets them action? I get so depressed seeing four lagtards on my table going all-in with 3PNK, and then when *I* try to get involved, they fold out or beat me with some stealthy monster.

Yeah, I'm probably just bitching, but my serious question is "how do you get action as a tighty?" If the answer is "just play tight; you've been incredibly unlucky" I can live with that, but if it's something else, I'd love to hear it.

[skoal2k4]

[ QUOTE ]
I've got a problem, and I can't tell if it's all in my head (bad luck lately, bad table selection lately, etc.) or if I'm actually just crippling myself without knowing it.

So, I'm tight at the tables. I play a 16/9 game, give or take. If I find myself with a bad streak of cards, I can easily run below 8% VPIP. Now, when this happens for a few orbits, I get ridiculous respect for my raises. WAY too much respect. I find that at the tables, I either win a very small pot, or lose a huge one. My bets and continuation bets get folded around unless my opponent catches something monsterous, and then I get put in horrible situations with decent hands (TPTK) against LAGs who take shots at me. If I shoot back, *BLAMMO* they put me all-in. If I don't shoot back, they eat me alive, one preflop raise at a time.

SO, I tighten up even more to avoid having my bets and raises picked off by hyper-aggressive opponents. That means that I'm playing even fewer hands, losing even more from the blinds, and getting even MORE respect from my raises, meaning I barely break even, if that.

There's GOT to be a happy medium that lets me win a big pot on occasion, but still play tightly. Is there some "trick of the trade" for tight players that gets them action? I get so depressed seeing four lagtards on my table going all-in with 3PNK, and then when *I* try to get involved, they fold out or beat me with some stealthy monster.

Yeah, I'm probably just bitching, but my serious question is "how do you get action as a tighty?" If the answer is "just play tight; you've been incredibly unlucky" I can live with that, but if it's something else, I'd love to hear it.

[/ QUOTE ]

so.... you're playing so predictably that even fish catch on?

[poboy]

Are you talking 6max or full?

[TheRegulat0r]

One of the adjustments I made that got me a lot more action was sticking in a whole lot more flop raises in position, and doing more check/raising and less continuation betting OOP with everything from sets to overpairs to draws to air. These raises are relatively cheap, especially in unraised pots, and they make a world of difference when you're playing against fishy opponents who have an image of you based on anywhere from the last 5 to 50 hands.

Getting to showdown in say a 20 bb pot and having the whole table see you made that flop move with 8-high is awesome. It happens to me fairly often, and I lose some money obviously, but I more than make up for it by getting paid off by all kinds of crappy hands when I have the goods. If I do pick up a set or a big pair when my image is like this, I often put in big all-in overbets on the turn or river and get paid because my opponents fail to differentiate between my small bluffs and my huge value bets.

The key is looking a whole lot crazier and looser than you actually are without losing much, and this relies heavily on knowing which guys can and can't fold hands.

[Garon]

Hi Pokey,

It sounds like you need to change gears. When I'm getting too much respect I loosen up a little, play a few more hands and make a few more PFR's. When I start to get some action I tighten back up a little. If you're always tight (and your description sounded like it) then what you are experiencing keeps happening. By loosening up sometimes, you get lots of the smaller pots before they catch on. When they catch on you tighten back up some and nail them. Rinse and repeat.

It also sounds like you may want to take a bit more time in your table selection, and not feel like once you've decided you have to stick it out there. I sometimes bop around a lot! [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Garon

[vulturesrow]

Are you playing 6 max or fullring? Use position to your advantage, play as loose as you can stand it in the CO and on the Button. Another technique (which I havent tried) is to mathematically randomize your play. Either pick certain hands to raise with from any position or use a certain time on your watch to raise any hand (last 5 seconds of the minute or something like that).

[mjws00]

Mix it up a little. Find a nice loose passive table. Play post-flop. Is it REALLY that hard to get away from a hand when you're beat?

If you're sitting under 10 VPIP it really isn't any wonder you don't get much action. You raise me I'm out. But I'll see a flop with you, cause if you're too aggressive I'm gone. If you keep it cheap enough to play I'm gone when I miss. If I hit, I'm wrecking your one hand in 2 orbits. But you're not profitable to play against so generally I (and the rest of the table) won't bother.

Play some cheap draws, show down that one gapper when it misses and you can check behind. C-Bet air occasionally. Play small pairs for set value, hit a few sc's.

It isn't uber-tight that wins down here. You just need to be a 'little' tighter than your opponents. So when they call you with A7 you just happen to have A9. Different story at high limits or at a table where everything is 3-bet preflop.

If 3BB to see a flop feels so expensive you can't take it, move down a level. A little 6-max might get you comfortable playing more hands.

Or just open up 24-tables and nut-peddle to your hearts content. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

Mike

[DemonDeac]

how often to do try to steal blinds??

i feel that since i do this alot, it helps be get action on my big hands

fwiw, i play 6max

[poincaraux]

Play more 6-max. Look for more spots to steal. Look for better tables .. these LAGs sound *way* more aware than the guys at my PartyPoker 6-max NL50 tables.

[DumbRock]

Pokey,

I feel silly saying this, as I am a lowly noob giving an experienced poster some advice, but I think you need to mix things up.

I play pretty tight, but my VPIP varies significantly based on the table and my image. When my raises get too much respect, I'll raise anything from CO or button until I get my CB bets picked off. I love raising J4o and taking the pot down with a CB!

When the opposite occurs, and your raises get no respect, raise much less and CB only with the goods. Play most PP for set value!

Just don't try to force your style onto your opponents, play to his weakness and adapt your style to theirs. Play tighter against LAGs, looser against tighy/whities. Sounds obvious, but sometimes the basic fundamentals is what we need to work on most. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Hope this helps.

DAR