AQ 3bet preflop then i improve but call?

POKhER · #1 03-07-2006, 04:51 PM

SB(3better) = 33/19/1.92 @ 538 hands
UTG is 47/9/1.16@114 hands a big fish.


 So i'm behind AK/AJ/AA/JJ split AQ.
if i riase the ace, QQ/KK may fold? do i want to win the pot here. I also get 3bet by AA/AK etc can i fold ?! 

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (6 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is CO with A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
UTG calls, 1 fold, Hero raises, 1 fold, SB 3-bets, 1 fold, UTG calls, Hero calls.

Flop: (10 SB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB bets, UTG calls, Hero calls.

Turn: (6.50 BB) A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB bets, UTG calls, Hero calls.

River: (9.50 BB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB bets, UTG folds, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 11.50 BB

POKhER · #2 03-07-2006, 04:55 PM

Ahh ill throw one more hand in here also [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Button 48/8/1.07 @ 123 hands
CO is 39/11/2 @ 44HANDS.

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (6 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is BB with J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
UTG calls, 1 fold, CO calls, Button raises, 1 fold, Hero calls, UTG calls, CO calls.

Flop: (8.50 SB) K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (4 players)
Hero bets, UTG folds, CO calls, Button calls.

Turn: (5.75 BB) K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero checks...

However, i think i screwed this. I think i had a fair of FE in this hand, i also have odds to call a raise with my FD should i bet raised.

What do you think about betting this?

tubasteve · #3 03-07-2006, 04:58 PM

I like it. Against his 3-bet range you are losing on that flop with a good chance he will 3-bet that street if you try a free card raise. On the turn, calling down gets more value out of big pairs like you said. If he checks the river I would bet and hope he can't ditch QQ or KK.

Is folding this flop too weak with just overcards and no backdoor draws? I feel like it is, but against his 3-bet range we're losing with probably 3 outs at the most, the only hand I see him 3-betting that we have decent outs against are TT, and the only hand I see us beating at the moment is KQs.

Steve

soah · #4 03-07-2006, 05:09 PM

First hand I would play the same. You've raised a limper (as opposed to openraising), and the threebet came from the SB, who looks like a decent player from his stats. I would expect this to be a premium hand most of the time. The only street I might raise is the turn. There you can at least gain another bet from UTG and whatever he's chasing, and the SB might call you down with KK/QQ. But once he goes ahead and bets the river and it's HU, I don't think raising has value. You're only beating KK/QQ, but losing to AA, JJ, and AK (maybe AJ too?). Factor in that he may not bet the river with KK/QQ, and that he may not call a raise with KK/QQ, and that folding TPGK to a threebet will make me feel sick, and I'm just calling.

soah · #5 03-07-2006, 05:12 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Is folding this flop too weak with just overcards and no backdoor draws? I feel like it is, but against his 3-bet range we're losing with probably 3 outs at the most, the only hand I see him 3-betting that we have decent outs against are TT, and the only hand I see us beating at the moment is KQs.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think it's close, but with the fishy player in there bloating the pot I'm more inclined to peel, and then I just pray I'm not up against AK and QJ.

soah · #6 03-07-2006, 05:21 PM

Second hand I don't get. If the limpers are fairly loose (postflop) then I would just check-call the flop and let them tag along and build the pot for me in case I hit. If they aren't the type to chase a lot, then I'd checkraise the flop and keep up the pressure as long as there's still a chance for me to make them all fold.

Your line is the worst of both worlds. It discourages the limpers from calling, fearing a raise behind them, but it's not as effective as facing them with two bets cold.

jba · #7 03-07-2006, 05:29 PM

hand 1: raise the river, fold to a 3bet.
hand 2: I would prefer a bet, but I don't mind checking either as long as you bet any non-A river if he checks behind.

edit: I just realized on hand 2 you got two flop callers. I think you dont have enough FE to bet there and you're asking to be raised.

RunDownHouse · #8 03-07-2006, 05:32 PM

These statements don't really jive:
[ QUOTE ]
If the limpers are fairly loose (postflop) then I would just check-call the flop and let them tag along

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
It discourages the limpers from calling

[/ QUOTE ]
I know what you're saying, but I think a lot of the time loose players will peel a flop they like, raises behind be damned. They're much more likely to fold the turn when UI than the flop.

Hand one goot. Hand two is pretty close, I think. Discouraging me from betting is having to call a bet if raised. Encouraging me to bet is that they both need to fold somewhere in the area of 15% to make it a good bet on immediate odds alone.

Ainex · #9 03-07-2006, 05:43 PM

I like hand 1

Hand 2 I might fire again on the turn but it depends on my opponents and how often I'm being called down.

POKhER · #10 03-07-2006, 05:54 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Second hand I don't get. If the limpers are fairly loose (postflop) then I would just check-call the flop and let them tag along and build the pot for me in case I hit. If they aren't the type to chase a lot, then I'd checkraise the flop and keep up the pressure as long as there's still a chance for me to make them all fold.

Your line is the worst of both worlds. It discourages the limpers from calling, fearing a raise behind them, but it's not as effective as facing them with two bets cold.

[/ QUOTE ]

These guys will call the flops alot, i want to trap them on the flop.. .if they fold then so be it.

But the turn cards interesting because FE may of shot up.

If it was A or something crappy id not bet and c/c as you said, thats obvious.

Fish dont care about raises behind them to be honest(IME).