When do you abandon ship? Or do you fight to the end??

ghcnoob · #1 03-07-2006, 01:40 AM

Villain is 30/15/2

Party Poker 10/20 Hold'em (6 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is MP with T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
1 fold, Hero raises, 2 folds, SB calls, BB calls.

Flop: (6 SB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB checks, BB checks, Hero bets, SB raises, BB folds, Hero calls.

Turn: (5 BB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB bets, Hero calls.

River: (7 BB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB bets, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 9 BB

poker1O1 · #2 03-07-2006, 01:44 AM

after he raises you on the flop, that's when you have to decide if you're going to SD or not. Your line is ok, but you put in 2.5BB's from the point of calling the flop reraise. If you intend to go to SD when he reraises you, I might 3bet and get one more bet in on the turn or river to save half a BB somewhere. Also, against an unknown, I usually fold to the flop reraise as it looks like a Q

ghcnoob · #3 03-07-2006, 01:58 AM

[ QUOTE ]
you put in 2.5BB's from the point of calling the flop reraise . If you intend to go to SD when he reraise you,

[/ QUOTE ]

Do you mean raise?

The Bryce · #4 03-07-2006, 02:33 AM

There are a ton of Qs in a 30%VPIP's range here, but not that many 7s. I'd chuck it.

ghcnoob · #5 03-07-2006, 02:42 AM

Do you chuck it on the flop or do you wait 'till the turn?

The Bryce · #6 03-07-2006, 02:49 AM

9:1 doesn't seem like very good odds to improve to a set [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

helpmeout · #7 03-07-2006, 02:58 AM

drawless board, his range from SB is unlikely to contain a 3 and a 7 isnt that likely either

Id say a Q hits his range pretty good so I'd like to be able to fold.

If I cant fold then I'd raise 3bet the flop and take a freeshowdown or raise the turn for a freeshowdown.

#8 03-07-2006, 01:00 PM

After a recent coaching session, I've started checking these flops through. I was auto-betting here all the time, but what was pointed out to me is "What am I hoping to get by betting?" This board is completely drawless. If they all fold, you can't be all that happy since they were behind. Not sad certainly, but if they had 3 outs, the mistake is for them to call.

If someone calls, you can't be very happy either. If their aggressive, you've encouraged them to bluff with a worse hand. If they're passive and the check to you again, you can fairly safely bet figuring you have the best hand. If a very passive player bets, particularly if another big card comes, you can safely fold. This is particularly true if you're 3+ handed.

The hard part comes when the 1.3-1.6 aggression types lead the turn as their bet could be a play for the pot or a real bet that missed a c/r on the flop or intended to look you up.

I'm sure I fold a few winning hands to turn donks, but I'm seeing showdown now with these hands more often. Before aggressive players were putting me in a very tough spot with a turn check/raise. Few aggressive players are willing to check the flop and turn to me, so against them I now can see showdown for 2BB with the bonus of often picking up their 1 or 2BB in ace-high semi-bluffs.

Now, if the board was 7h8hQs, it's a different story due to the draws.

7ontheline · #9 03-07-2006, 01:24 PM

I think consistently checking these flops through misses value and fails to protect your hand. Lower PPs are probably going to call, some people with aces are going to call. Realistically if they were going to fold on flop what are the chances they pick up soemthing on the turn that both convinces them to continue AND isn't now beating you? Also I would think that checking these through would eventually make your hand more transparent unless you were really checking through a bunch and then you're probably just missing even more value. I can't see your rationale but I'm very open to more convincing.

redrooski24 · #10 03-07-2006, 02:20 PM

Don't we have to include small pairs in SBs range? His PFR isn't high, and I think 55-99 are in his calling range(although 99 probably 3bets still), and those hands will very often c/r the flop here with villain on the right.

I usually 3 bet the flop and then bet turn and check behind on river for a free SD like someone already mentioned to save 1SB when behind. Oh, and fold to a turn c/r.