KQs 4way

POKhER · #1 03-06-2006, 01:55 PM

This felt wrong!

 MP3 - Unknown.
Sb - 19/10/3.5 @ 31hands nothing seen.
UTG - 85/0/.35 @130 hands. Calling station and plays everything also donked OOP HU 99T7A river w/Ajo so potentially donks when hits hand.


Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (5 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is Button with Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
UTG calls, MP calls, Hero raises, SB calls, 1 fold, UTG calls, MP 3-bets, Hero calls, SB calls, UTG calls.
 LRR, AA? or some spastic with other junk? 

Flop: (13 SB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB bets, UTG calls, MP calls, Hero calls.

Betting into 4 is pretty strong, specially with PFR's to act last. I put this guy on a big hand or FD 

Turn: (8.50 BB) K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB bets, UTG calls, MP calls, Hero calls.

 Bets again but i pick up K... Can i raise? Am i really ahead here? but getting 11:1 i guess its an easyish call(But feels wrong)

River: (12.50 BB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB checks, UTG checks, MP checks, Hero checks.

 Ok no one with FD but will i ever win? 

Final Pot: 12.50 BB

Every street except river for comments [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

KittyKat · #2 03-06-2006, 01:59 PM

I would normally raise the turn, fold if he 3 bets. I think of my turn raise as saying, "I have a K" and if he 3 bets he says, "I have it beat".

As you played it I valuebet the river (why didn't you?).

POKhER · #3 03-06-2006, 02:08 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I would normally raise the turn, fold if he 3 bets. I think of my turn raise as saying, "I have a K" and if he 3 bets he says, "I have it beat".

As you played it I valuebet the river (why didn't you?).

[/ QUOTE ]

was a tempting turn raise, this is where maybe my error came in.

Well after he bet the turn he's showing LOADS of strength with that specialyl with 2preflop raisers later to act.

So the river bet is -EV imo. I dont see any worse hands calling me to be honest. My TPGK i feel isnt ahead but i wanted opinions.

Sb may fold to my bet if he missed FD, the fish will call with anything. The preflop better ive no idea what he could have. AA i thought at first.

Although i guess i only have to win this 1 in say 3/4 times for the value bet to pay back over longterm(e.g. the callers with worse hands pay me for when the better hands call and beat me)

Hmmmm [img]/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img]

True · #4 03-06-2006, 02:09 PM

Raise the turn and bet the river for sure.

The K is not a big of a scare card as an A and he will also bet this again with a flush draw draw. This TAG is super aggressive and called 1.5 cold from the SB. This player would surely be betting the river with a hand that beats you. I think that his hand range is mostly comprised of J-x which COULD include KJ but its doubtful, also getting 11:1 with 2 outs really isn't enough to call if you think you are beaten.

True

I_C_ALL · #5 03-06-2006, 02:20 PM

On the flop, I'm leaning more towards two pair but I'll call down on the possibility of a flush draw. I play it the same, but probably fold to a river bet.(flush hits)

MacGuyV · #6 03-06-2006, 02:27 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Well after he bet the turn he's showing LOADS of strength with that specialyl with 2preflop raisers later to act.

[/ QUOTE ]

Preflop preschlop. People make continuation bets on the turn too just like on the flop. Betting after everyone calls the flop doesn't show loads of strength. What do you put him on here? You can disregard all 2pairs and discount 22 and 55 at least partially. AJ or a flush draw is more likely than JJ. Plus you're getting overlay from how many other callers who have two cards?

The turn is a mistake but it's not god awful like the river is. I don't even know where to begin with that. Horrible.

Scary_Tiger · #7 03-06-2006, 02:46 PM

Preflop is fine.

Flop is fine.

Turn call is meh, I'd prefer a raise.

After the turn check, you MUST bet this river. SB is representing a weak J like JT or a middling pair like 88, 99, and TT. Failing to bet here is a HUGE leak.

jaxUp · #8 03-06-2006, 03:39 PM

I think missing a turn raise was a pretty significant error. You will see a J here really often (maybe a FD). The idea that people may have a FD here is the reason to raise the turn. They will put in the extra bet drawing, but only if they hit on the river.

The river check is really bad, althought it might be okay if you were second to act.

bnorthro · #9 03-06-2006, 03:48 PM

The Limp/ReRaise just screams mid A, like A9s or any other crap. I'm always amazed at what I see guys do that with. I'm not ready to give him credit for AA until he tells me he's got it.

SB's play doesn't make any sense in this hand. If he had a weak J or even JT, i would expect him to C/R, he has perfect position to clear out one or two people. So his donk looks a lot like a flush draw (You said he was TAG, I don't think a TAG is playing J5 or 25 for that many bets PF). I would also expect a pocket pair like 99 or TT to go for a C/R here. MAYBE 34 would play this way?

You've got to raise the turn.

River: WTF? SB's check makes no sense, you have to bet the river.

POKhER · #10 03-06-2006, 04:00 PM

Maybe its because i had a feel for my game and subconcious reads that i can't really put down in words.

I don't feel im being results orientated anyhow because i played the hand like i did for a few reasons stated already.

SB betting into a 4player field when it was 3bet preflop between two players says to me "i've a huge hand or draw and i know late position will raise so im pumping this like hell, RAISE ME! i'll call and get more overcalls".

On the turn the card hitting didn't really give me much confidence hence i posted this hand as it was an umcomfortable play.

River value bet i used illogical thinking at the table. My thought process was basically "I'm beat, probably 2 pair or a set and hes just fearing being raised due to so many people calling him down. If i bet im beat so im throwing money away".

Not realising that the fish will call with junk, the other opponent who later turned out to be a 83%VPIP fish himself will call. So even if im only right 30% of the time or so, these fish pad the pot and get my money back when i am ahead and SB's hand turns out to be AJo or something.

Results are below SB flipped a set as predicted a big hand 55, the preflop 3better hand A4s and turn out to be a fish anyhow. The other fish who didnt 3bet had some crap i forget what it was

Cheers all for your input once again