$27 - Openshove JJ with 13.7BB

[mattiesmat]

How is this, am I losing a lot of value by shoving?

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t100 (7 handed) by Hand Converter CG

CO (t2409)
Button (t2285)
SB (t1420)
BB (t1350)
UTG (t1325)
Hero (t1370)
MP2 (t3341)

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to t1370</font>

[vers]

it's clearly +ev but I would raise to 275 or 300 instead. If I has 11BB I shove easily and maybe even 12BB. A little deep to be shoving here IMO.

[JSmith2007]

I don't think so at all. The blinds are moving up quickly, if someone is going to call you with ace rag or king rag to a 250 raise, you're probably going to get it all in on the flop anyway and be WA or WB.

[vers]

when do ppl call k rag for 250 in a 27 where rag is like 9 or less?

[JSmith2007]

[ QUOTE ]
when do ppl call k rag for 250 in a 27 where rag is like 9 or less?

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, I didn't mean rag literally as K2. I think people will call 250 with hands like K9-KQ in position, where if they flop something decent they're going to assume its the best hand putting hero on something like Ax raising preflop and such. That is what I meant moreso by calling with Kx, just bad definition on my part.

[vers]

I think shove pre = unwillingness to play flops and make good reads postflop. That's definitely not a good thing.

[JSmith2007]

[ QUOTE ]
I think shove pre = unwillingness to play flops and make good reads postflop. That's definitely not a good thing.

[/ QUOTE ]

But with such a short stack at the moment, how can you afford to play flops with a hand like this? You're saying if you raise to 250, say c-bet 400 on a K hi board and get reraised all in that you can fold? I really don't think you could unless you have an incredible read.

[mattiesmat]

[ QUOTE ]
I think shove pre = unwillingness to play flops and make good reads postflop. That's definitely not a good thing.

[/ QUOTE ]

That is part of the reason yes, and I know it's not a good reason.
The other reason is that raising+cbetting is really expensive if we lose, especially if blinds get up.
If we raise to 275 get a call, the pot is 550+150=700.
If we then cbet like 400, we have invested 400+275=675=6.75BB and we have just 7BB left and when blinds increase even less.
This might be playing scared and this is the worst possible scenario, but I really think raising+cbetting is too expensive with 11-13 BB stack and this is kind of the border.
With 14+ BB's I think its fine with less it's a bit too expensive when it fails IMO.

[vers]

Depending on opponent I might be able to find a fold. Yeah raising pre kinda makes flop play a little awkward, but when you shove pre, I don't think you get called very lightly, maybe the lowest is like 99. Everything else races against you or is ahead, so you get next to no value from weaker hands by shoving pre. It is a borderline situation I'll give you that.

[JSmith2007]

Haha - nice mirror image post of mine mattie [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]