NL 20 QQ face 4bet vs unknown

Kukla · #1 10-30-2007, 08:19 PM

I have some trouble to play such situation vs unknown villain [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

iPoker No-Limit Texas Hold'em (NL20), $0.20 BB (6 handed) SilverKitty Hand History converter by www.pokeronline.com.ua

Hero($21.83)
CO ($40.56)
Button ($20.51)
SB ($58.36)
BB ($20)
MP2($19.38)

SB: Post SB $0.10
BB: Post BB $0.20

Preflop:
Hero is MP3 with Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
MP2 Raise $0.6
Hero Raise $2.4
4 folds
MP2 Raise $5.2
Hero ?

Kukla · #2 10-31-2007, 01:11 PM

nobody?

gregorio · #3 10-31-2007, 06:56 PM

I think at these limits, without reads, his 4bet range is KK+ and maybe AK. It is a tough spot. You don't have set odds to call, and I really think villain is almost never 4betting and planning to fold to a shove at this limit.

I don't mind calling PF with position with QQ, because it plays really well in position. I also don't mind the 3bet because even though you make it a good size that nobody has odds to call with anything except maybe AK, at this limit bad players call 3bets really light, so you can 3bet QQ for value. Again, without a read, it is hard to know whether villain is a decent player, positionally aware, not raising UTG without a premium hand, and not making bad calls of 3bet OOP.

Vs. a good player, 3betting turns your hand into a bluff, because it is only called by a range that is ahead of your range. Vs a bad player, 3bet can be for value. Vs unknown, I think calling in position and 3betting are both ok, but when villain 4bets, I think their range is KK+ and AK, with KK+ being more likely. So you are at best, a 3:2 dog here. If you call, best case scenario is there is no A or K on the flop, but still not a very good spot to be in because once he cbets, you are folding or playing for stacks, and while your equity is about 50:50 on the flop, I think you have to give less weight to AK than KK+, so I still don't like your chances.

So if I 3bet here PF, I think I am folding to 4bet vs unknown.

Shaqalicious · #4 10-31-2007, 07:05 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I think at these limits, without reads, his 4bet range is KK+ and maybe AK. It is a tough spot. You don't have set odds to call, and I really think villain is almost never 4betting and planning to fold to a shove at this limit.

I don't mind calling PF with position with QQ, because it plays really well in position. I also don't mind the 3bet because even though you make it a good size that nobody has odds to call with anything except maybe AK, at this limit bad players call 3bets really light, so you can 3bet QQ for value. Again, without a read, it is hard to know whether villain is a decent player, positionally aware, not raising UTG without a premium hand, and not making bad calls of 3bet OOP.

Vs. a good player, 3betting turns your hand into a bluff, because it is only called by a range that is ahead of your range. Vs a bad player, 3bet can be for value. Vs unknown, I think calling in position and 3betting are both ok, but when villain 4bets, I think their range is KK+ and AK, with KK+ being more likely. So you are at best, a 3:2 dog here. If you call, best case scenario is there is no A or K on the flop, but still not a very good spot to be in because once he cbets, you are folding or playing for stacks, and while your equity is about 50:50 on the flop, I think you have to give less weight to AK than KK+, so I still don't like your chances.

So if I 3bet here PF, I think I am folding to 4bet vs unknown.

[/ QUOTE ]

calling and not 3-betting is HORRIBLE ADVICE

gregorio · #5 10-31-2007, 08:11 PM

[ QUOTE ]
calling and not 3-betting is HORRIBLE ADVICE

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks for the insight. I like your reasoning. You are wrong though. It is bad advice if you are horrible post-flop and want to win a small pot without having to think after the flop. If is fine, and probably +EV against most villains, if you think you can play ok in position post-flop.