NL60 (deepstack) FullTilt: Another tough fold, QQ?

QuietEarner · #1 10-26-2007, 10:19 AM

Villain is 56/26/2.6.
Other than playing to many hands, haven't seen much from him.

Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.30 BB (6 handed) Full Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

SB ($31.15)
BB ($102.35)
UTG ($49)
Hero ($86.75)
CO ($54.60)
Button ($49.55)

Preflop: Hero is MP with Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
1 fold, Hero raises to $1.05, 1 fold, Button calls $1.05, 2 folds.

Flop: ($2.55) 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets $1.8, Button calls $1.80.

Turn: ($6.15) 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets $3.8, Button calls $3.80.

River: ($13.75) 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets $8, Button raises to $42.9 (All-In), Hero folds.

Final Pot: $-5.15

I posted a similar hand yesterday, but I am second guessing myself after folding these type of hands. Thoughts on anything I could have done differently.

mmctrab · #2 10-26-2007, 10:26 AM

Meh, I play it the pretty much the same. I raise a little more preflop, but that's not going to change anything.

Profish2285 · #3 10-26-2007, 10:52 AM

As far as pf, its standard as you hit the pot button to open. I am assuming thats your standard raise for all holdings so its fine. I like a bigger bet on the turn, say to like 4.5-5. As played, this is a fold though. Looks like villain was slow playing something big in position against you. Since this is deepstack poker I think you can definitely include 45s, A4s, maybe even 46s in his range.

Somnius · #4 10-26-2007, 11:01 AM

What about checking the river and deciding whether or not to call the bet...doesn't look like he's drawing, and you actually have a hand, after he calls the turn, I'd probably check/call or check/fold the river depending on the bet. Why face a tough decision on the river in this hand unnecessarily, I'd personally want a cheap showdown here as villain could have many midpairs, I doubt he'd raise like that on the river with them, but still, u betting all 3 streets, on a board that looks like you probably missed and you're just triple barreling just invites a more astute player to bluff the river on you, I mean, what're you really gonna call with, not much...that's how I'd play it anyway.

Profish2285 · #5 10-26-2007, 11:05 AM

The problem with c/c IMO is that the board isnt really frightening enough to do that. If villain has a nine here, which his line could easily indicate he does, then there is a good chance he checks behind on the river. This of course makes us lose value, leaving money on the table. I dont mind bet/fold here at all. If the flop had a diamond draw you could c/c to induce a river bluff possibly, but the board is dry.

Somnius · #6 10-26-2007, 11:13 AM

That's a good point, villain's range is pretty big here. Still, especially with people like this villain, when the board pairs on the flop like that in this situation, the more passive they are, the more worried I am, from my experiences most players like this love to take shots on this board, but perhaps we are losing value here not tripling...knowing villain's showdown percentage would help too...if it's pretty low and he calls that turn, id be more inclined to check the river here, if it's high, I'd probably bet/fold on the river as played.

Profish2285 · #7 10-26-2007, 11:16 AM

I guess what I am saying is, if you are going to check the river, then it should be c/f regardless. If most villains wont bet a 9 here after the pot has gotten this big, which I think is a fair assumption, then youre c/c-ing with a losing hand more often than not. Seeing as how c/f here seems incredibly weak, I think bet/fold is the clear winner. Just my 2 cents tho.

Somnius · #8 10-26-2007, 11:19 AM

Well if your assumptions here are right, then I agree with you and your reasoning makes sense, I guess I don't have enough river experience yet, still not completely comfortable assessing what people would bet with on the river in situations.

Milky · #9 10-26-2007, 11:19 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I guess what I am saying is, if you are going to check the river, then it should be c/f regardless. If most villains wont bet a 9 here after the pot has gotten this big, which I think is a fair assumption, then youre c/c-ing with a losing hand more often than not. Seeing as how c/f here seems incredibly weak, I think bet/fold is the clear winner. Just my 2 cents tho.

[/ QUOTE ]

Agreed. I don't think villain bets anything you beat on the river besides a pure bluff but I think he calls with a fair amount of hands that you're beating enough to make b/f a much better line.

But yeah, I think you have to fold to the river raise.

poincaraux · #10 10-26-2007, 11:58 AM

I bet in all of the places that you did, but I bet bigger preflop, on the flop and on the turn. I find that people in this game are reallllly into the idea of "it's deepstacked, so I can call a big bet now and stack him when I hit later." Be patient, and just take a note when stuff like this happens. If he's doing it with something that you beat, he'll be doing it a *lot* and you can take advantage later.