Conscious Reasoning

[coberst]

Conscious Reasoning

I would say that the basic facts that we have, with which to start the search for the cusp of instinctive and consciously reasoned behavior might be:

1) Somewhere in the chain of life, from its mysterious beginning to the present, there exists a point when the behavior of creatures is influenced by something we call consciousness rather than something we call instinct.

2) Using computer lingo, we can classify instinct as behavior caused by hardwired algorithms.

3) Reason is a means to control behavior based upon real time assessment of real time circumstances.

4) Reason requires that data from the senses be ordered into some fashion that will facilitate real time inferences, this is called conceptualization; followed by inferences made from these concepts.

5) We have, from computer modeling technology, empirical evidence that the neural system that control perception and mobility have the capacity to conceptualize and to infer. In other words, the essential elements of sensorimotor control are also similar to the essential elements of reasoning.

6) If biology has created the structure that has the elements for reasoning, it is logical to conclude that such a system would not be duplicated for reason but that this very same system would be modified in whatever manner is necessary for it to function also as an instrument that can reason.

Instinct controlled the behavior of creatures until consciousness kicked in and now humans are controlled to a large extent by reason rather than instinct. Throughout time the evolutionary process, which includes instinctive behavior, maintained some form of equilibrium in the world. With the introduction of rational creatures this evolutionary process has been drastically disrupted.

As reasoning creatures that have disrupted the evolutionary process, we must replace this evolutionary process with a rational process that can duplicate or improve on the natural evolutionary process. If we cannot perform this prodigious task adequately the whole shebang will be flushed down the toilet.

Secretary of State Powell said in regards to the Iraq war that “if we break it, we own it”. I think we can say the same thing about our human activity and natural evolution. We break natural evolution and thereby we own the problems caused by that action.

[Alex-db]

I don't think there is any evidence that "concious reasoning" is anything other than an illusion created by the ability to listen to a 1st-person commentary of some of our unconcious reasoning - it may be a completely false distinction.

The ability to articulate, record, and communicate thoughts could probably explain the developments that led us to believe we have a special degree of conciousness.

[MidGe]

Coberst,

It is annoying. You make those long posts, like the OP and they contain so much misinformation couched in pseudo scientific language. [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

Let me keep it short. You are listing 6 points numbered 1 to 6 and not a single one, of these points you make, stands scrutiny. They are just plain wrong and very obviously so for anyone that has even a cursory knowledge of the fields involved.

What are we supposed to get from these posts of yours?

[coberst]

[ QUOTE ]
Coberst,

It is annoying. You make those long posts, like the OP and they contain so much misinformation couched in pseudo scientific language. [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

Let me keep it short. You are listing 6 points numbered 1 to 6 and not a single one, of these points you make, stands scrutiny. They are just plain wrong and very obviously so for anyone that has even a cursory knowledge of the fields involved.

What are we supposed to get from these posts of yours?

[/ QUOTE ]

You might take this opportunity to develop your critical thinking and writing skills by arguing your position rather than making the usual sophomoric bluff and bluster.

[tame_deuces]

I think it was a rather good post. More to the 'point' than many of your other posts. Were it gets a little hazy is with your very broad 'grouping' of the term instinct.

Instincts as hardwired processes are okay, but it would be better to think of it more fluidly. Say you got some things that are completely hardwired - mostly the 'clockwork' of the body, and then slowly you see the brain getting more 'advanced' the further you progress from it's centre. The amygdala for the emotions and then outermost the 'crown jewel' in the human machine with the cerebral cortex.

So instead saying 'bang hardwired' and 'bang conscious' I'd say it is better to imagine a 'slow' fluid evolution of the brain, where it gained more and more ability to process input as you travel from its centre to its outer edge (biologically we can assume the innermost parts are mostly the oldest developments, whereas the outer ones are mostly the newest, its a little rough but its a nice 'aid' to help grasp the concept).

[MidGe]

[ QUOTE ]
You might take this opportunity to develop your critical thinking and writing skills by arguing your position rather than making the usual sophomoric bluff and bluster.

[/ QUOTE ]

Coberst, how interesting that you call my posts sophomoric as indeed I have found all of your posts.

Let me take a couple of points in your OP, because, the OP doesn't warrant more and because some have already been addressed. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[ QUOTE ]
Using computer lingo, we can classify instinct as behavior caused by hardwired algorithms.

[/ QUOTE ]

There is absolutely no evidence that the brain works in anyway algorithmically. That may be a facile conclusion to which minor academics came to in the 1950's but really it is not taken seriously at all if it had ever been. To have to cite to deny your assertion is indeed an insult to anyone aware of both the psychological and AI field. I'll let it rest at that.

[ QUOTE ]
As reasoning creatures that have disrupted the evolutionary process,

[/ QUOTE ]

Disrupted??? Indeed? Not part of the process of evolution? What next? Angels?

[ QUOTE ]
We break natural evolution

[/ QUOTE ]

The size of your ego, given your paucity of learning is amazing!

[coberst]

tame-duces

You are correct I am confident that the whole process of moving from total instict to consciousness was gradual.

[coberst]

MidGe

I am confident that you have more talent than you are dispaying here. Do not be bashful. Let'er rip.