AQ in BB facing late position 4-bet shove

RonFezBuddy · #1 10-24-2007, 12:38 PM

FT $26. No reads, just moved to the table a few mins ago.

A couple of questions regarding the hand:

1. When he minraises to you in the BB, are you just shoving here or are you going to make a 3x type bet? I figure my stack size is bordering on resteal size. If we go by Bond's 2/3 rule it might be an easy shove, if we go by simply counting BBs it might be a bad idea to shove. I was torn.

2. So I go with the 3x 3-bet and he shoves. What do you do, call or fold? My original plan was to 3x and then fold to a shove. But then I started thinking about his range and I couldn't figure out if it should be wide or not. The original minraise is suspicious but like i said i have no reads and he's a big stack maybe testing out a steal and then thinks that I am restealing? Maybe i've giving too much credit here in a $26.

Folding here would put me like 80/100 with 45 ITM. I lean towards calling to hopefully double and make a real run at this tourney.

I guess I can figure this out if we can pin him down on a range but I can't quite figure out what range does this. Any suggestions?

Full Tilt Poker
No Limit Holdem Tournament
Blinds: t250/t500
(Ante: t50)
9 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
UTG: t61090
UTG+1: t4710
MP1: t12075
MP2: t4650
MP3: t1120
CO: t11125
Button: t22901
SB: t21705
Hero: t9995

Pre-flop: (9 players) Hero is BB with A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
6 folds, Button raises to t1000, SB folds, Hero raises to t3000, Button raises all-in t22851, Hero?.

umistboy · #2 10-24-2007, 12:51 PM

My reaction to butoon min-raises at these stakes is someone not trying to lose customers. If he's got a big hand he doesn't want to scare people off and doesn't mind a flop either.

I'd stick to your plan and fold. Weak looking, maybe. But without any specific reads I don't like it. At 7000 you've still got enough room to play and find many better spots.

BrandiFan · #3 10-24-2007, 01:11 PM

I agree that it's often a big hand as you say, but I try not to assume that until I have seen that he normally open raises differently. It could be that he's got AT and just wants to isolate/induce a push against the semi short BB.

I make that sort of mini raise frequently when I think the BB is in desperation mode.

If you are going to reraise, you need to shove. As played he might think he has FE in 4 betting and he really shouldn't. Call.

M1cKmAcK · #4 10-24-2007, 01:12 PM

Instead of raising I would just shove. This isn't a bad spot for you that I see. Any amount you raise him to, he's probably going to shove with any medium pp +. You're in for 3K, I'd go ahead and stick the last of it in and pray he doesn't have AK.

ssnyc · #5 10-24-2007, 01:15 PM

shoving is best...don't like bet folding this shallow ever

BarryLyndon · #6 10-24-2007, 01:27 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I agree that it's often a big hand as you say, but I try not to assume that until I have seen that he normally open raises differently. It could be that he's got AT and just wants to isolate/induce a push against the semi short BB.

I make that sort of mini raise frequently when I think the BB is in desperation mode.

If you are going to reraise, you need to shove. As played he might think he has FE in 4 betting and he really shouldn't. Call.

[/ QUOTE ]

Kinduv sums it up.

Any reads? There is an ante here, right? Isn't that ante 50? I've seen minraises like this just be attempts to steal without committing or losing a lot of chips. This happened before when I just sensed his min raise was an attempt and 3-bet with 44, no problem. This could be AJ. I think you must shove here. Hyper nit play may lead you to a fold, but raising to 3K is a bad move. Is this for information or for value or to induce a bluff. I'm not even sure you know, Ron, and giving up 1/3rd of what is still a resteal stack is kinduv icky.

In general, putting a lot of thought as to when to resteal with premium hands in late tournament situations is -EV. You're gonna get hit sometimes, but you NEED these opportunities at 250/500/50 and in LP. Gotta take it and hope he shows a midpair / AJ / folds (which he will enough).

btw,a go-n-go here is not good, is that what you were planning? Most hands he is willing to call with he's going to reshove (and you should call the remaining 6K for Brandi's reasoning).

Barry

kolotoure · #7 10-24-2007, 01:31 PM

We can't 3-bet/fold here can we? We are getting a decent price and I think we have the best hand occasionally

homanga · #8 10-24-2007, 03:19 PM

Like Barry Said this should just be a shove after the min raise.

BarryLyndon · #9 10-24-2007, 03:39 PM

I'll add one more thing:

Say you put your opponent on a nice tight range (prob. not right and if you start doing this, you'll see monsters under the bed for a while): 1010+; AQ+. Let's say you weigh 1/3rd if KQ/QJ ever so slightly. And, you put AJ in, but you just don't think it weighs the same as A10/AQ. You're really, really unsure about having FE. It's not absolutely terrible to call here with a plan to CR any Q / A for value. Why?

Say you raise to 3000 chips. You don't get anything to fold and are behind a ton. But you don't want to push for whatever reason. If you call, you don't do a lot of damage to your stack and can safely fold most flops and move on. OTOH, if a Q hits you get a lot of value from your KQ/QJ/1010/JJ that will undoubtedly cont. bet and be committed when you RR. A hits, and you can CR a cont. bet and get more money in against A10/AJ

I don't like calling here in this spot, though calling >>>>>>>>>>>>&g t;>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> raise to 3000. This explains why raise to 3000 is so bad.

And there MAY be other spots where a even only a little deeper calling is OK depending on the button. Just a few possible alternatives to evaluate, though I think this particular spot is an easy shove.

Not to overcomplicate things, but there it is,

Barry

bschrade · #10 10-24-2007, 03:43 PM

instead of 3-betting, why not call the minraise since you're getting a good price and re-eval after a flop?