How man of you push here?

[absoludicrous]

No reads on villain, we can assume he's holding a big PP here 99% of the time, maybe a set, but not very often.

He has 100bbs here, but we're on deep stack table, if he has 200bbs, do you still push, or flat call, and play the turn? I'm not saying what I would do, I'd like to know how you'd play this if you were both 200bbs deep.

Full Tilt Poker, $0.15/$0.30 NL Hold'em Cash Game, 6 Players
LegoPoker Hand History Converter

BTN: $31.95
SB: $75.70
Hero (BB): $80.10
UTG: $41.15
MP: $63.10
CO: $32.10

Pre-Flop: 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] dealt to Hero (BB)
3 folds, <font color="red">BTN raises to $1</font>, SB folds, Hero calls $0.70

Flop: ($2.15) 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 Players)
Hero checks, <font color="red">BTN bets $1.30</font>, <font color="red">Hero raises to $6.05</font>, <font color="red">BTN raises to $18</font>, <font color="red">Hero raises to $79.10 and is All-In</font>, BTN calls $12.95 and is All-In

Turn: ($64.05) A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 Players - 1 is All-In)

River: ($64.05) 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 Players - 1 is All-In)

Results: $64.05 Pot ($3 Rake)

[brandysbich]

Dont try and make bad players fold overpairs. Just call the flop bet and re-evaluate on the turn whether you have 100bbs or 200bbs, he's betting a little over half pot so you getting good odds to just call

If you have no reads on villain why can we assume he has a big PP 99% of the time?

[vixticator]

This is fine after your first raise. Once you raise the first time need to push and you did. And, I don't think you should c/c flop. Too much equity against almost any hand. Four to a straight showing kills your action. There's a chance he calls your raise (the first one) with AK/AQ too. Once you get 3bet, put it in. NH.

[absoludicrous]

[ QUOTE ]
Dont try and make bad players fold overpairs. Just call the flop bet and re-evaluate on the turn whether you have 100bbs or 200bbs, he's betting a little over half pot so you getting good odds to just call

If you have no reads on villain why can we assume he has a big PP 99% of the time?

[/ QUOTE ]


After logging ~10k hands at these 30NL tables, I see A LOT of players play over pairs like this. I don't see a lot of players raise in LP with PP's that would have connected on this flop for a set.

I can't rule out that he doesn't have a set, I just think it's less than the equity I'm getting. Therefore, I think he has a big PP here a large % of the time.

FWIW, I usually push combo draws, and draws with pairs like this a lot. I play 30/20 too...


I don't like smooth calling, leaving him with $12, knowing he'll push the turn, getting such good pot odds/implied odds on the flop.

If I c/c, miss the turn, I'm folding, I'm no longer getting proper odds at this point. And I would hate to play this weak.

[takingcontrol]

with 100bb's i'll either c/c on the flop and c/r the turn to rep the ace, hoping for a fold.
Or lead on the flop with my draw as i'll often do with sets and aim to shove over a 2bet (assuming he'll call with his entire range- if he only calls when he has a set this option makes me like it less, though im not sure of the numbers).

deep, i've no idea - what little money in the pot already becomes less important because there's still so much left behind. that being the case I like calling the flop, and c/ring the turn although it leaves us open to getting raised off our hand. Though, since it's not a draw to the nuts and also our straight is hard to extract value from when we do make it, turning the hand into a bluff becomes alot more attractive to me.

[kaz2107]

100bbs this is 100% standard. since this is a deep table if villian was 200bbs deep u cant really shove imo as it would b such a huge over bet. i typically make just a pot sized bet (because i think it looks scarier thus giving us more FE against JJ or QQ or w/e) and then obv call a shove check call the turn (not sure of the pot odds but im pretty sure we would b getting sufficient odds even if we miss to check call the turn if a blank lands

[yegon]

wouldn't it be better to bet/3betAI with these stacks? Gives a lot more FE to our AI 3bet.


200BB deep I'd c/c flop, c/r turn as a bluff and call a reraise if I'd have odds to draw.

[AusDerBunker]

[ QUOTE ]
wouldn't it be better to bet/3betAI with these stacks? Gives a lot more FE to our AI 3bet.


[/ QUOTE ]

Good question, if you want it all in on flop, why not lead it ?

[john voight]

pretty bad call IMO PF. good play on flop though.

[ama0330]

Flop raise is super awful. Flop 5bet is worse.


Board: 5c 8d 7s
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 39.795% 37.43% 02.37% 13709 868.00 { 8h6h }
Hand 1: 60.205% 57.84% 02.37% 21185 868.00 { QQ+, 88-77, 55, 87s, 85s, 87o, 85o }