I suck with mid pairs

Floyd13 · #1 10-11-2007, 07:43 PM

Villian is an unknown but seemed kinda donkish.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $2 BB (5 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Hero ($211.15)
SB ($200)
BB ($211)
UTG ($225)
MP ($115.05)

Preflop: Hero is Button with J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
UTG raises to $6, 1 fold, Hero raises to $24, 2 folds, UTG calls $18.

Flop: ($51) 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
UTG checks, Hero bets $36, UTG calls $36.

Turn: ($123) 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
UTG checks, Hero checks.

River: ($123) 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
UTG bets $30, Hero calls $30.

Final Pot: $183

Same villian as above, but a few minutes earlier in the session. Total unknown at the time.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $2 BB (4 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Hero ($213.35)
UTG ($200)
Button ($155)
SB ($198)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
1 fold, Button raises to $6, 1 fold, Hero calls $4.

Flop: ($13) K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets $10, Hero calls $10.

Turn: ($33) 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets $14, Hero calls $14.

River: ($61) J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets $30, Hero folds.

Final Pot: $61

Villian appears to be a solid TAG. Lately I've been getting raised A LOT on this kind of board. Is this a reasonable line? I have to call river if he bets right?

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $2 BB (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Hero ($196.60)
MP ($202.70)
CO ($203)
Button ($186)
SB ($108.65)
BB ($147)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
Hero raises to $6, 2 folds, Button calls $6, 2 folds.

Flop: ($15) J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets $10, Hero calls $10.

Turn: ($35) Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, Button checks.

River: ($35) 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, Button checks.

Final Pot: $35

Villian is unknown but looked like a solid TAG.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $2 BB (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Hero ($237.10)
UTG ($196)
MP ($196)
CO ($310.70)
Button ($107.05)
SB ($114.25)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
UTG raises to $8, 3 folds, SB calls $7, Hero calls $6.

Flop: ($24) Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB checks, Hero checks, UTG checks.

Turn: ($24) 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $14, UTG calls $14, SB folds.

River: ($52) 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, UTG bets $28, Hero folds.

Final Pot: $52

Villian is one of you guys. A solid TAG.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $2 BB (5 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Hero ($215.50)
UTG ($315.25)
MP ($194)
Button ($265.20)
SB ($182)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
1 fold, MP raises to $8, 2 folds, Hero calls $6.

Flop: ($17) 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, MP bets $12, Hero raises to $36, MP folds.

Final Pot: $41

Villian is a TAG.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $2 BB (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Button ($197)
Hero ($198)
BB ($86)
UTG ($191.30)
MP ($373.65)
CO ($230.45)

Preflop: Hero is SB with 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
3 folds, Button raises to $6, Hero raises to $24, 1 fold, Button calls $18.

Flop: ($50) 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets $36, Button folds.

Final Pot: $50

All comments appreciated. And if you have input on only one of the hands, please speak up. I posted these 6 in the hopes of getting some discussion going on mid pairs in general. I think I played most of these hands rather poorly but I really don't know. Thanks.

franklloydwright · #2 10-11-2007, 08:18 PM

Just glanced through, but off the bat, you're reraise size is building huge pots, and forcing you to make bigger continuation bets than you would other wise. i"m not against re-raising sometimes, and c-betting always, but over the course of these hands, there's at least $50 or so, you could've saved and still got the same amount of information.

On the 2nd hand with 99, what was your plan when calling the turn bet? check check show down? While I never put him on a K, i can put him on an 8, and consider your line a turn peel.

On the 3rd hand, i def def try to get a little value on the end.

Others look std. Like I said i think you can save money in these spots with smaller reraises, avoid peeling, and reach for value when you think poss,

Floyd13 · #3 10-11-2007, 08:54 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Just glanced through, but off the bat, you're reraise size is building huge pots, and forcing you to make bigger continuation bets than you would other wise. i"m not against re-raising sometimes, and c-betting always, but over the course of these hands, there's at least $50 or so, you could've saved and still got the same amount of information.

On the 2nd hand with 99, what was your plan when calling the turn bet? check check show down? While I never put him on a K, i can put him on an 8, and consider your line a turn peel.

On the 3rd hand, i def def try to get a little value on the end.

Others look std. Like I said i think you can save money in these spots with smaller reraises, avoid peeling, and reach for value when you think poss,

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes the second hand I was hoping to get a free showdown. You fold the turn against this small bet?

The 3rd hand I guess there is some value on the river, but I figured it was more likely I'd snap off a bluff than get a worse hand to call.

I agree with your point about 3betting these pairs, especially OOP. Normally I just call and then play poker, but against a good opponent I think I'm losing value here. Bloating the pot OOP with a mid pair may not be any better though. That line always seemed like a bluff to me but most of the posters here seem to like the 3bet there, so I've been mixing it up. Still feel lost on these hands.

Symbolic · #4 10-11-2007, 09:14 PM

Hand 1) I check flop since there's not a great deal of value and we just wanna showdown cheapish and control pot size. Also not too many bad turn/river cards for us.
Hand 2) I often end up doing this. It kinda feels bad but dunno what else to do. I'd be interested if anyone else has a better line.
Hand 3) I think this is definately fine against many opponents. I'm not sure why you'd check this and bet the flop in hand 1 though since they are similar type of situations. I'm more likely to lead out in this hand, mainly since we're OOP.
Hand 5) I usually just check-call flop since he just generally folds overcards and doesn't call with many worse. If he shoves we have to fold and if he calls we're in bloated pot OOP with a marginal hand which isn't great news...
Hand 6) I typically just cold call pf, but 3betting can be good too, depending on various factors. As for the flop, I suck in 3bet pots so I dunno whether to cbet or not here. It's probably fine.

ptartaglio · #5 10-11-2007, 09:18 PM

Hand #1
Played very well! Good job regardless of the outcome. I would have probably bet less on the flop though. I would have bet 1/2 to 2/3 the size of the pot since the board was so uncoordinated.

Hand #2

With the button raising, I would put him on wide range of hands, I don't like a call here. I like either a re-raise or a fold. I would re-raise in most spots here with 99, unless your opponent was extremely tight. I have kind of adapted to Bob Ciaffone's rule of when a pot will be heads up, never call a full size raise out of position with a medium pocket pair, either raise or fold.

Hand #3

I would like to see a continuation bet here with 1010. Your opponent will miss most of his hands with this flop. Go ahead and bet.

Hand #4
Again I think your opponent could have a really wide range of hands. He checks the flop, just calls the turn on a draw heavy board. I would check-call on the river. That might be incorrect but I don't think it would be a big mistake.

Hand #5

Again I really dislike calling heads up with medium pocket pairs. I would re-raise here. If you re-raise, and he calls you know where you stand if you get raised on a continuation bet. If he re-raises you pre-flop again you know where you stand.