I think I know what i did wrong here...comments

sobefuddled · #1 03-03-2006, 10:14 PM

For the past week I've been reading everything I can on 2+2 and I've learned alot. Thank you. I've also received some good advice. Thank you. I play in $1.10 and 1.20 tournaments-both 1,000+player and 45 player at PokerStars. Today I played the following hand just before the first break. In the end I close to bubbled-12 away from the money but oddly enough I came out feeling that I had played a better game than I have ever played. So once again. Thank you. Now for the hand.
I was up against someone who my PokerTracker told me had "attempted to steal the blinds" 25 times out of 35 hands. I had folded a number of questionable hands to him. My rule has been never to bluff a bluffer but in this case I think I was mistaken. I think instead of calling him I should have risked all my chips. I would like your opinion. I began playing for the first time in my life last June and I am, well...I am the mother of a 24-year-old poker player who is quite good. I learned to play so that I could talk about it with him and then discovered I really enjoy the game...then I discovered I really want to win...not just cover my buy-in. So in this case I think I should have put all my chips in against this player because my poker tracker software (which I learned about on this site) told me he had tried to steal the blinds 25 out of a total of 48 hands he had been dealt once he was moved to our table. Please critique for me. I really want to win more than my buy-in and I really enjoy tournament play.
PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t100 (9 handed) converter

Hero (t3282)
UTG (t6365)
UTG+1 (t1020)
MP1 (t1395)
MP2 (t1270)
MP3 (t6440)
CO (t2785)
Button (t1380)
SB (t5979)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
3 folds, MP2 calls t100, MP3 calls t100, 2 folds, SB completes, Hero checks.

Flop: (t400) 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB checks, Hero bets t200, MP2 folds, MP3 calls t200, SB folds.

Turn: (t800) 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets t200, MP3 raises to t500, Hero calls t300.

River: (t1800) 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, MP3 bets t400, Hero calls t400.

Final Pot: t2600

Results in white below: 
Hero has 6c Ad (one pair, aces).
MP3 has 9d As (one pair, aces).
Outcome: MP3 wins t2600. 

He had As 9d

C-Dog · #2 03-03-2006, 11:11 PM

To start, please try not to include the results in the post.

That said, The Stealing stat doesn't really come into effect here, since he wasn't trying to steal the blinds.

As for the rest of the hand, I would bet the pot on the flop, and then if called, I would pretty much give up on the hand, since nobody should be calling a pot sized bet that doesnt beat A6 with that flop. The only possible draws are gutshots, and usually they arent calling for that, and if they are you can get the back later.

Given the bet and call on the flop, if you decide to lead the turn again, you need to increase the size of your bet, to 1/2-full pot. The 200 again looks weak, and he could be making a play on you. Once he makes what is in all reality a very weak raise, you have toe decide right then whether or not you are ahead of him. If you decide you are, then reraise him, or move in, if you decide you are not, release the hand.

C-Dog

Holdemphile · #3 03-03-2006, 11:11 PM

Your Villain here isn't stealing. He didn't raise preflop. Just because someone raises alot preflop doesn't mean that they don't have a decent hand when they limp after another limper. I don't think your Poker Tracker data is all that useful in this hand.

When you have a weak Ace, you have to consider the possibility that your opponent has you outkicked, and if he doesn't, he might have 2 pair. The only Aces you can beat are A2, A3 or A5. You are almost always behind. You could try checking the flop sometimes in this situation where there are no flush draws out, and the only possible straight draw is an inside draw, meaning your opponent only has 4 cards that will make his str8. This keeps the pot smaller, and if you are winning large pots regularly with such a weak kicker you are probably doing something wrong. You could also try a larger flop bet with the intent to give up the hand if there is any additional action as you can usually assume that you are beat if your opponent calls, for example a 3/4 to pot-sized bet on the flop.

Holdemphile

sobefuddled · #4 03-03-2006, 11:43 PM

OK. Both points well taken. But please explain why I shouldn't include the results in the post? I'm a bit confused on that point

Holdemphile · #5 03-03-2006, 11:49 PM

Because it affects our advice. It's almost impossible to analyze a hand in any rational fashion after knowing the results. Make a second post entitled "results" if you like.

Holdemphile

sobefuddled · #6 03-04-2006, 12:19 AM

OK. Got it.
Perhaps I should have explained up front that I had at the turn put him on a hand similar to mine. A-something but not great because he had bluffed so many times and because this time he did not come in with a big raise. I was relatively short-stacked and I thought in hind-sight that if I had put all my chips in against him he would have folded. He could afford to take me on but I had established a very tight reputation at this point with a 100% pot win average when I did go for it. (Too tight really, in retrospect). My bluff rate was 5.something. And those weren't bluffs really. Just 3XBB raises on really great hands. I'm only now beginning to work with bluffing. I guess that's what this question was really all about. If you have a super-tight rep on the board is this a hand that would have won, given what he had and the fact that he bluffed to a fare-thee-well (he was taken out two hands later) had I gone all-in? I'm very good at facing down opponents when i have the nuts or close too it but I still back off too often and I am wondering if this is one of the times I backed off when I should have gone for the gold.

Holdemphile · #7 03-04-2006, 12:38 AM

You weren't that shortstacked. You had over 30BB. If you have 30BB, you can play "comfortably." I don't think you have to make a move at that point. If you give up the hand when he raises you still have plenty of chips left to play with.

I prefer to do my bluffing with hands that have little to no chance of winning a showdown. In this hand, you might be ahead of your opponent, but because your hand isn't that strong, you really don't want to play a big pot. If you have no chance of winning the hand, but you've built a pot by, for example, calling a bet on the flop with a straight draw which missed, you might try a bluff at that point if your opponent has shown weakness by checking the turn or the river. Once you get your bluffing frequency and timing down right, you can squeeze some value out of hands that will never win a showdown.

Holdemphile

rockythecat99 · #8 03-04-2006, 12:50 AM

First you were nowhere near shortstacked. Second your flop bet suggest you have an ace. Even bluffers fold to this from a tight player betting out an ace. Your ace beats nothing here A2,A3. Fold to his turn raise. Find a better spot.

sobefuddled · #9 03-04-2006, 01:43 AM

So you are saying that in spite of the fact I knew him to be a bluffer I should have folded at the turn. I had folded to him so many times with really good hands-at least three of which would have won the pot-You don't think I could have out-bluffed him? Honestly, I was really frustrated and needed to take a stand but feel I whimped out. Granted he did have the better hand but it was not that much better.

rockythecat99 · #10 03-04-2006, 02:13 AM

So I'll give you an example. A guy today in the tourny I final tabled. Kept reraising me alli n preflop. I folded 5 times to him then finally with AJsooted I took a stand during the final table. He had QQ and I was crippled. Sometimes they are not bluffing. Sometimes they do have it. I know what you mean about taking a stand. But patience is your friend.