a little something i've been working on........

bigmac366 · #1 10-09-2007, 05:31 PM

its called chilling the [censored] out, and not going zomg top pair i raise!

villian was 25/15/3 afer 70ish hands

this may not be the best spot to take this passive line, but my thinking is if i'm ahead here, he is drawing slim (likeley to 3 outs or less) he is likely to fire 3 barrels if i just call, and if i raise he is likely to fold the turn or river with AQ AJ and PP less 99 and smaller etc... netting me 1.5 or .5BB LESS than just calling down or betting if checked to. if we raise and get 3-bet we are probably [censored] and need to fold but i think this hand is just a little too strong to fold HU 4-handed vs a blind..... anyway, what say you

PokerStars 1/2 Hold'em (4 handed) internettexasholdem.com

Preflop: Hero is UTG with K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
Hero raises, 1 fold, SB 3-bets, 1 fold, Hero calls.

Flop: (7 SB) T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB bets, Hero calls.

Turn: (4.50 BB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB bets, Hero calls.

River: (6.50 BB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB bets, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 8.50 BB

Oink · #2 10-09-2007, 05:37 PM

I think that you should raise. But I also think that you are on to something. Namely: "what hands in his range does he do what with?"

[ QUOTE ]
.. if i raise he is likely to fold the turn or river with AQ AJ and PP less 99 and smaller etc...

[/ QUOTE ]

If he is gonna c/f river with AQ, AJ and 99- you might as well raise either flop or turn to make him fold his outs before the river.

It sucks getting 3-bet on the flop or getting c/r'ed on the turn. But it is quite a narrow part of his range you are worried about.

That said, if he doesnt call down with AT, QQ, JJ, 99, 88, 77, 66 and perhaps less. Then you are not gaining much by raising the flop.

A final thing to consider. If you dont raise your pairs in this spot your FE drops significantly when you raise QJ vs observant opponents

danzasmack · #3 10-09-2007, 05:39 PM

This is 4 handed, so I don't really like this very much. Is he 25/15/3 4 handed? I mean then i could SEE it, but basically - just because you raise this flop doesn't mean he is folding. You get called down by 77 here because that flop is "chock-a-block" (middle/intermediate school reference i believe) full of draw. AJ is b/c'ing the flop, not folding the turn and once he's there, yeah calling the river.

Also some regular on here yells @ me for not calling the flop and popping the turn. So consider that line.

I'll do this with like K5ss if i raise it OTB and the SB has started to open up more because for some reason interneters like to slow down after i call them down. But not too often.

Basically, SHLHE = zomg top pair = zomg raise = zomg i only beat a bluff now = zomg 13:1 i guess i gotta call = omg wtf he had the bluff.

jba · #4 10-09-2007, 05:41 PM

as short as this is it sure feels like you need to put in some more action. especially since it's a pretty safe board to not get 3balled on by one pair, which IMO argues for a turn raise.

danzasmack · #5 10-09-2007, 05:42 PM

"That said, if he doesnt call down with AT, QQ, JJ, 99, 88, 77, 66 and perhaps less. Then you are not gaining much by raising the flop."

Yeah but if this is true then he won't be @ the table too long anyway because he will be bustooooo.

also oink thumbs up.

bigmac366 · #6 10-09-2007, 05:45 PM

most of his stats were from 6 handed play, the table was breaking when this hand occured. i dont know if he knows how to adjust to this or not.

your correct, it was a small percent of his range i was worried about beating me.

someone was talking about keeping worse hands in with you to showdown as a way go improve your play. i think your right about needing to be a bit weaker like k5s for this to be correct.

bigmac366 · #7 10-09-2007, 05:47 PM

[ QUOTE ]
especially since it's a pretty safe board to not get 3balled on by one pair, which IMO argues for a turn raise.

[/ QUOTE ]

excellent point, i hadnt even considered the texture of the board when i made this decision, other than on the flop i noticed my backdoor flush draw [img]/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]

ThxBearl · #8 10-09-2007, 05:49 PM

Standard 3 bet preflop. I would raise on the flop or vs some extremely loose players just call on the flop hoping to raise any non A on the turn for more value but a pricier way to figure out where you are in the hand, But your most likely going to be good on the turn with top pair J kicker 4 handed.

Oink · #9 10-09-2007, 05:49 PM

[ QUOTE ]
most of his stats were from 6 handed play, the table was breaking when this hand occured. i dont know if he knows how to adjust to this or not.

[/ QUOTE ]

BigMac. Do you use PT?

If so I advice you to use the option to filter for different number of players by the table.

If all you see are overall stats from a player you really miss out on valuable info. Some players change style dramatically when it gets short or full.

Personally I filter for

2-handed
3-4 handed
5-6 handed
7-10 handed

The problem is that you need at lot more hands to have significant stats for all the filters

sethypooh21 · #10 10-09-2007, 05:50 PM

I either raise flop or turn here - depending on the villain - the more SD bound the villain the more likely the flop the board is so damn drawy, he's going to put you on a draw and call down with as AT/JJ a fair amount, whereas he might be able to get away from those hands on the turn...