20NL: 2nd pair vs. shorty showing weakness

Genz · #1 10-08-2007, 05:18 PM

Hey guys!

I need a check-up. I'm forced to sit with a lot of short stacks and they are generally terrible and force me into high variance decisions. I.e. they call any raise with any suited broadway and will get it in with any pair on the flop, either by calling, check/raising or even just plain donk pushing.
During the hand I thought of this guy as one of those short stacks. He isn't that short, but still short enough, so I guess I realized that he doubled somehow. Or at least he played donkish.

Stats are like: 60/22/1.7 over about 40 hands.
I put him on any pair here, any Q, ldo, but on the turn, I think there is a good chance that MHIG and that he is weak. Reasonable? Preflop is debatable, obv, but I usually don't 3bet TT oop preflop and I don't think I have any fold equity given my x-perience with the shorties.

Carlos Poker 0.10/0.20, hand converted by the iPoker Converter at Talking-Poker

saw flop

Button Button ($8.64)
SB Hero ($24.60)
BB ($11.99)
UTG ($36.68)
UTG+1 ($19.39)
CO ($37.24)

Preflop: Hero is in the SB with T [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] T [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
3 folds, Button raises to 0.80, Hero calls 0.70, 1 fold.

Flop (1.80) 5 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] Q [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 2 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
Hero checks, Button bets 1.80, Hero calls 1.80.

Turn (5.40) 9 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
Hero checks, Button bets 1.80, Hero ???

PJo336 · #2 10-08-2007, 05:25 PM

You dont need as much fold equity against a 60/22 shortie cuz hes prob gonna stack off preflop when ur way ahead of his range. Id 3bet and hope to get a push, or flat push basically any flop aft he calls the 3bet

as played, you have absolutely NOOOO idea where you are but is his aggresion factor really that low? whats he betting with on that dry board that hasnt hit with such a low aggression factor?

do you have street by street aggression?

Micro Donk · #3 10-08-2007, 05:31 PM

plz 3bet pre

Genz · #4 10-08-2007, 05:32 PM

I think the sample is too small for street by street aggression (but in PT it's 1.8/2.5/1) and I don't have it in my HUD so it wasn't available to me. And I got this figure from PT. IIRC it showed more like 2.2 during the hand. And with that amount of hands played, he isn't passive at all.
I was basically going to give up the hand on the turn, but his smallish bet struck me as odd. What is your default thinking in this situation? tarp or weakness?
I wouldn't play this way against a non-shortstack or non-shortstack-like player.

Genz · #5 10-08-2007, 05:34 PM

[ QUOTE ]
plz 3bet pre

[/ QUOTE ]

What's your reason? Do you just always 3bet TT preflop and don't want to think about it anymore or is there any good reason to do it in this situation against this player given the general description I have given, keeping in mind that it might be a bit off since the sample is small and I was 9tabling.

PJo336 · #6 10-08-2007, 05:36 PM

Alot of times a small turn bet for me is like screaming I HAVE NOTHING. Shorties play can be so confusing that I wouldnt be surprised if when u crai on turn hed fold. I see that alot, btu bare in mind weakness could also mean a crap Q.

Also as said 3bet pre because hes short enuff it puts up a threat to all of his chips and if hes that big of a monkey, 1010 is great to felt him with

Micro Donk · #7 10-08-2007, 05:38 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
plz 3bet pre

[/ QUOTE ]

What's your reason? Do you just always 3bet TT preflop and don't want to think about it anymore or is there any good reason to do it in this situation against this player given the general description I have given, keeping in mind that it might be a bit off since the sample is small and I was 9tabling.

[/ QUOTE ]

hes short, hes 62/20 so his button range isnt exactly narrow, even with the small sample size it can be determined, just calling OOP opens you up to tough spots like this with no idea where you are in the hand...

PJo336 · #8 10-08-2007, 05:40 PM

also besides opening up a spot like this, it allows him to get away easily when u show aggression.

Say he had AJ and has whiffed the flop, he cbets and u push, he folds

whereas preflop u 3 bet, he pushes u call, 1010 holds up

lame example really just something to think about as if he has nothing ur prob not getting his whole stack anymore

members_only · #9 10-08-2007, 05:41 PM

Yea I think it's reasonable to assume he's weak here. I'd probably call and then check-call his $0.80 bet on the river. Sometimes he'll have a queen, but often enough he won't. Imo

members_only · #10 10-08-2007, 05:42 PM

[ QUOTE ]
also besides opening up a spot like this, it allows him to get away easily when u show aggression.

Say he had AJ and has whiffed the flop, he cbets and u push, he folds

whereas preflop u 3 bet, he pushes u call, 1010 holds up

lame example really just something to think about as if he has nothing ur prob not getting his whole stack anymore

[/ QUOTE ]

What?