Pretty Interesting 10/20 hand

[4CardGrind]

Brown is.. not necessarily real aggro.. not necessarily bad... lets go with.. splashy. C-bets half pot aloooott

FullTiltPoker Game #3746584479: Table Corkseed (6 max) - $10/$20 - Pot Limit Omaha Hi - 17:27:07 ET - 2007/10/03
Seat 2: Fiddy23 ($2,406.50)
Seat 3: Rollover2k ($4,231)
Seat 4: buharmak ($1,246)
Seat 5: Mr Ce Brown ($2,992)
Mr Ce Brown posts the small blind of $10
Fiddy23 posts the big blind of $20
The button is in seat #4
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Rollover2k [4h 6d 5h 3d]
Rollover2k raises to $70
buharmak folds
Mr Ce Brown raises to $230
Fiddy23 folds
Rollover2k has 15 seconds left to act
Rollover2k calls $160
*** FLOP *** [Ts 3h Qd]
Mr Ce Brown bets $240
simba232 sits down
Rollover2k has 15 seconds left to act
simba232 adds $400
Rollover2k calls $240
*** TURN *** [Ts 3h Qd] [4d]
Mr Ce Brown bets $960

Normally I don't peel here. But I felt that the speed of Ce's half pot c-bet seemed real weak, almost like he is doing it regardless of the flop... just lightning quick. I figure I can got a couple runners two pair outs trips.. but namely I am looking to take it away when the board looks scarier.

Now on the turn villian waits like 2 secs then pots it. Now I am second guessing thinking that he was reeling me in on the flop maybe top two or top set.. wrap and flush now. Those are also hands he might half pot with. So I decide to call.. kind of hoping to check down riv, or obv hit my draws.

Question is.. whats your play on turn. I am actually pretty confident in this being a good spot to peel.. with deeper stacks and all. So do you go with original overpair or Q w/ kickers read. Or do you lay it down. I am pretty sure calling was bad.

Results below.. sort of...

http://www.pokerhand.org/?1548404

[TheRempel]

On the turn you either have the best hand with a very strong redraw or you have a huge draw with some fold equity against relatively some relatively weak made hands (TTP, TaBP, etc). I'd only just call the turn in this spot if I thought its very likely he has a big hand. I don't mind the flop peel but you have to believe you have some fold equity on the turn if a scare card comes off that doesn't improve your hand.

[wazz]

Looks to me like AAKJ/AKKJ/AKQJ that just picked up diamonds. Though I'd guess this is top set something like 15% of the time. At this point you'd probably do best to just call and call river if all the relevant draws miss. This is a tall order though, and you need to have a good read on the villain - his preflop 3betting range is crucial here, unless 3bets are standard in this game. You can make things easier on yourself by raise or folding this flop.

[TheRempel]

[ QUOTE ]
You can make things easier on yourself by raise or folding this flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

With bottom pair no draw?

[wazz]

Hellz yeah, if villain is c-betting all the time there's no reason for him to have anything at all here, let alone a hand he can call a raise with. There's also no flush draw on this flop so the raise is more believable and there's less villain can play with.

[sqwisssssss]

i understand this is more of a thinking level stakes but i really cant see what you would try to represent on the turn if you raise. villans pot size bet is saying one of two things.........comittment or a bluff.

i dont like hands when i'm guessing and this hand on the turn is a dangerous guessing game.

the only positive is the open ender.

ugh, i had a hand similar to this today that i decided to call the turn and i ended up kind of bein the guys biotch.

i think these are classic hands that usually lead to losing days. i fold or raise the flop personally but i know thats not the answer to the question you asked......but then again, my answer wins the pot on the flop or i get a free card on the turn or i get re raised out the pot on the flop and move on.

hee hee, now for the fun part. i get to read your results

[sqwisssssss]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
You can make things easier on yourself by raise or folding this flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

With bottom pair no draw?

[/ QUOTE ]

no, with one pair and back doors and POSITION. its not a bad play......my opinion

[sqwisssssss]

lol, wow!!!! i saw the results. the villan had everything. he had topset with a broadway draw and nut flush draw.

i'm being sarcastic but i dont see how villan bets river without broadway.......unless he is damn good or a bluff.

ugh, this hand is hard to swallow.

[Petteri]

Shove turn, you have good hand against his range. I do not like calling since he can have overpair + flush draw combo.

[Big Dave D]

This is really a meta-game issue. If you are playing that fast that you are peeling the flop this thin, then you should be prepared to stack on this turn. After all, how good did you expect it to get? If he is a decent player at these stakes then he will bet the turn thin here himself as it looks like a miss for you too. Just flat calling the turn is problematic as there are a lot of rivers you are going to be unhappy with. And there may be a surprising amount of fold equity for a raise on the turn if he has air, and of course you could actually be favourite.

Also, I'm not sure that putting such a weight on timing tells is that sensible at these stakes.

gl

bdd