Value betting the river

[roggles]

One weak aspect of my game is that I don't feel sure how big to bet when value betting a river. I tend to go for a little more than half the pot, because that seems to be called most of the time. What are some reccomendations or guidelines for this?

One type of hand is when the pot has had a lot of action, but you feel sure you have the best hand by the river. I realize it's very hard to say generally, but should you try to bet big? I tried to find an example of a hand like this in my hand histories, but I couldn't find one.

A second type of value bet is when you've hit a draw. What if you chase a flush or straight and get it and it's fairly obvious you might have been chasing it? Bet very small and be super-obvious about it?

What if you make a more hidden suckout? The following two examples are hands I played today where the power vested in me by full tilt let me make the best hand by the river. In both I don't feel sure what to bet on the river. In the first hand the opponent is Elrazor, but I don't know much about him. In the second hand the villain is a huge donk who feels like he calls with anything preflop. I'm not not observant enough to know how he plays post-flop.

Full Tilt Poker
Pot Limit Omaha Ring game
Blinds: $0.5/$1
5 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
UTG: $23.50
roggles: $103.75
Button: $46.40
SB: $97.20
BB: $191.90

Pre-flop: (5 players) roggles is CO with 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
UTG folds, roggles calls, BB checks.

Flop: 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] ($2.5, 4 players)
<font color="#cc0000">BB bets $2</font>, roggles calls.

Turn: T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] ($6.5, 4 players)
<font color="#cc0000">BB bets $6</font>, roggles calls.

River: K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] ($18.5, 4 players)
BB checks, <font color="#cc0000">roggles bets ???</font>

Full Tilt Poker
Pot Limit Omaha Ring game
Blinds: $0.25/$0.50
5 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
UTG: $65.30
CO: $22.50
roggles: $61.30
SB: $75.05
BB: $51.60

Pre-flop: (5 players) roggles is Button with K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
UTG calls, CO folds, <font color="#cc0000">roggles raises to $2</font>, SB calls, BB folds, UTG calls.

Flop: 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] ($6.5, 3 players)
SB checks, <font color="#cc0000">UTG bets $5</font>, roggles calls, SB calls.

Turn: 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] ($21.5, 3 players)
SB checks, <font color="#cc0000">UTG bets $10.75</font>, roggles calls, SB folds.

River: K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] ($43, 2 players)
UTG checks, <font color="#cc0000">roggles bets ???</font>

[Kala1928]

1) 14$
2) 38$

[Elrazor]

i think both these hands require solid bets - your hands are well disguised enough to be paid off here

in the hand against me i was value betting 2 pair and rivered the idiot end of the straight, you might have got slightly more off me but i got the impression you had picked up something decent but i had just enough of a bluff catcher

hand 2 i think im happy 1/2 potting - there is a possible straight out there and while we know villan dosent have it he might think we have. if hes got a set then again hes got enough to call if he thinks we have a busted flush. Sometimes in these spots a full pot bet is better, as it obviosuly dosent look like a value bet you just have to know your donks [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

as a side note, i find if opponents give you any indication they know you post here its a licence to print money - any time you river anything like these hands just pot it as they assume you are 'being tricky' and there is a high % they will call light 'to keep you honest'

[JamaY]

I've noticed betting full pot when you get a backdoor flush or something that doesnt look obvious you were chasing all the way works really well. A lot of people are just too curious and will pay a PSB to catch you bluffing.