Does SSH Still Apply Online??

[JolsonFan]

Given the <30 flop percentages commonly seen online these days, does Miller/Sklansky SSH still apply to these games? I rarely see more than 3 or 4 people see a flop anymore. It almost seems everyone is waiting for AA or KK. I know this is an exaggeration but the 40-50% flop days are over. I have been playing 1/2 limit for a couple years now and as time goes by I almost feel as if I can't beat these games at all anymore. I'm still playing the proper hands according to position, playing according to pot odds after the flop, etc. Below are my Tracker stats.
Total Hands 11,772
Vol. Put $ In Pot 14.38
Folded SB to Steal 88.61
Folded BB to Steal 84.62
Att. to Steal Blinds 11.53
Won $ WSF % 34.53
Amt. Won (-271.50)
BB/ 100 Hands (-1.15)
Went to SD % 33.20
Won $ at SD% 56.36
PF Raise % 5.11
Flop AF 1.74
Turn AF 1.39
River AF 1.43
Total AF 1.55

[OziBattler]

[ QUOTE ]
Given the <30 flop percentages commonly seen online these days, does Miller/Sklansky SSH still apply to these games? I rarely see more than 3 or 4 people see a flop anymore. It almost seems everyone is waiting for AA or KK. I know this is an exaggeration but the 40-50% flop days are over. I have been playing 1/2 limit for a couple years now and as time goes by I almost feel as if I can't beat these games at all anymore. I'm still playing the proper hands according to position, playing according to pot odds after the flop, etc. Below are my Tracker stats.
Total Hands 11,772
Vol. Put $ In Pot 14.38
Folded SB to Steal 88.61
Folded BB to Steal 84.62
Att. to Steal Blinds 11.53
Won $ WSF % 34.53
Amt. Won (-271.50)
BB/ 100 Hands (-1.15)
Went to SD % 33.20
Won $ at SD% 56.36
PF Raise % 5.11
Flop AF 1.74
Turn AF 1.39
River AF 1.43
Total AF 1.55

[/ QUOTE ]

welcome. SSHE is a great book however many 1/2 games will be very tight so youll have to adjust and learn to attack/defend blinds etc and generally play pots as if shorthanded. Dont disregard SSHE as it has many valuable concepts that apply but do understand that when games play differently to what SSHE describe you need to adjust to them. There are other books out there that cover tight games well.

Your stats are a concern though. The numbers highlighted are all way too low and you likely dont attack or defence your blinds well which basically makes you very weak tight and nittish so if i were playing you and you bet Im getting out of the hand unless I have something strong or i think i can push you off your hand. I bet you have trouble getting paid off on your big hands.

consider
1. playing some 6max at lower limits to get your shorthanded aggressive game working better.
2. Dont be a stranger. Get more involved in the forums. stop lurking, start posting a few hands and replying to alot more in both small stakes and microstakes, be open to opinions/criticism and assess them objectively. if you get berated then take it on the chin and learn from your mistakes.

[BubbleMint]

I am not great with poker tracker stats, it is something I am just learning, but your fold BB to a steal seems way to high.

[MicroBob]

His fold BB is insane.

versus a cutoff or button raise that opens the betting you really need to be defending your BB with stuff like T9s, etc.
You don't have to get all crazy and defend with 54o or something.
But the pot is heads-up...it's been raised before you and if it's a 1/2 blind-structure then you only need to call 1 small-bet and there already 3.5 small-bets in the pot.

Those odds are good enough where you can take a shot and see if you catch a flop.
Only defending with 15% of your hands means you are only defending your very best hands which means the cutoff and button have a license to pick your blinds clean practically all night long.


Also, attempt to steal blinds of only 11% is insanely low too although not surprising considering the total pre-flop raise of only 5%.

If it's been folded around to you in the cutoff, button or SB you need to be finding spots to raise. Especially if the blinds are tight and you can steal.
This means that if you have 55 from the cutoff and nobody has entered the pot yet then you pretty much HAVE to be raising here. Same with a lot of other hands that you must be folding currently judging by the stats.


Hope this helps. Loosen up and battle for some of those pots. You might hit even win a few of them.

[Bob T.]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm still playing the proper hands according to position... playing according to pot odds after the flop, etc...

[/ QUOTE ]

I hate to say it, but if you think poker is that simple, you probably aren't going to be able to survive in the current online environment.

Your preflop raise% seems to low. Additionally you don't defend your blinds enough, and your won at showdown probably indicates that you are leaving money on the table. Given everythin else, I think that your postflop aggression numbers are elevated, because you fold too often, so you aren't actually as aggressive as those numbers indicate, so you probably are playing passively postflop also.

[Niediam]

While obviously the '7 to the flop' hand examples in SSH don't occur too often the actual concepts explained the book are still very relevent.

[Yads]

Judging based solely on your stats, you can't beat the game. Your attempt to steal is way too low, your fold blinds to steal is way too high.

[AKHobbes]

agreed with everything everyone has said... also i always thought that your turn aggression factor should be the highest (it is for me) as that's where the higher bet comes in. i know it doesn't happen often but you can run bad for 11k+ hands...but since your win% at sd is good i wouldn't think that this is part of the problem.

[ichthyologist]

So what would people suggest as a good range for the "fold to steal" numbers?

And I think 30-40% is a good range for "attempt to steal blinds" at these levels; would others agree or not?

[ichthyologist]

Actually, 40% ASB is probably too high at these levels; 25-30% is my actual range when I doubled-checked.

And of course before posting I should've checked the stickies, which would have led me to these stats. These seem to indicate that "fold SB to steal" should be around 80-85% and "fold BB to steal" should be around 60-65%. (They also agree on 25-30% ASB.)