Shortstack strategy

[JH1]

Wasn't sure where to put this thread, maybe theory would be better but I'm not sure, so I put it here (mods feel free to move it).

I tried a shortstack strategy today to try to figure out what the shortstackers at the tables are doing (moved down to 10NL for this experiment). I found it really tough to play without ratholing as soon as I won because even if I win 2 and lose 1 I am at 0 for the table.

I wonder if I was playing this correctly, but are these good shortstackers basically picking a set of hands and pushing them or raising and pushing any flop considering their opponent is going to miss 35% of the time? For instance, I didn't know what to do with AK in EP, because I found it so weird to to bet 1/4 of my stack and then whiffing the flop so I tried going 4BB and after that I just open pushed.

I think that full stacks must be optimal, but I have a tough time beating the shortstacks when I'm playing my regular full stack sessions. Gave me some insight into how light people are going to call you down though and that your fold equity is severely reduced when you only have 20BB.

Any ideas on how to beat these guys?

If anyone is interested, here are the results of my shoving when I was called, which was about 40% of the time. I was 9 tabling and basically shoving the top 5% of hands or so depending on opponents for about 45 minutes (I think this is something like Ed Miller's shortstack strategy, just a bit wider):

KK<A7
QQ>AK , QQ<TT
JJ>A9

AK>AJ , AK>A6 , AK<KK , AK<45 , AK<KK
AQ>QT , AQ<AK , AQ<22
AJ>66

KQ<J5

6 wins 9 losses (variance obviously - ahead 9 times and behind 6 preflop)

Wouldn't have shoved these hands but...
AJ hand villain was 72/2/1 and limped in LP
KQ hand, limper on the button, SB completed, I shove in BB, SB called.

[MyTurn2Raise]

not worth spending your time on...it doesn't win

[JH1]

I know, I don't want to be a shortstacker. I tried it to try to figure out how shortstackers think and it doesn't make any sense to me.

I always play full stack and I have trouble beating shortstacks.

[Small Fry]

[ QUOTE ]
Wasn't sure where to put this thread, maybe theory would be better but I'm not sure, so I put it here (mods feel free to move it).

I tried a shortstack strategy today to try to figure out what the shortstackers at the tables are doing (moved down to 10NL for this experiment). I found it really tough to play without ratholing as soon as I won because even if I win 2 and lose 1 I am at 0 for the table.

I wonder if I was playing this correctly, but are these good shortstackers basically picking a set of hands and pushing them or raising and pushing any flop considering their opponent is going to miss 35% of the time? For instance, I didn't know what to do with AK in EP, because I found it so weird to to bet 1/4 of my stack and then whiffing the flop so I tried going 4BB and after that I just open pushed.

I think that full stacks must be optimal, but I have a tough time beating the shortstacks when I'm playing my regular full stack sessions. Gave me some insight into how light people are going to call you down though and that your fold equity is severely reduced when you only have 20BB.

Any ideas on how to beat these guys?

If anyone is interested, here are the results of my shoving when I was called, which was about 40% of the time. I was 9 tabling and basically shoving the top 5% of hands or so depending on opponents for about 45 minutes (I think this is something like Ed Miller's shortstack strategy, just a bit wider):

KK<A7
QQ>AK , QQ<TT
JJ>A9

AK>AJ , AK>A6 , AK<KK , AK<45 , AK<KK
AQ>QT , AQ<AK , AQ<22
AJ>66

KQ<J5

6 wins 9 losses (variance obviously - ahead 9 times and behind 6 preflop)

Wouldn't have shoved these hands but...
AJ hand villain was 72/2/1 and limped in LP
KQ hand, limper on the button, SB completed, I shove in BB, SB called.

[/ QUOTE ]

Try this. I think you'll like it.

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showfl...e=5&fpart=1

[JH1]

Thank you Small Fry, that was very helpful. So basically you have to put them all in before they go all in themselves if you've got a reasonably strong hand. I didn't realize that the good ones would open up their range that much if they think they have fold equity, so that's good to know.

I've been able to pick out the bad ones and if they raise preflop and I can get it HU I'll pretty much shove 88+ and AK. The post was right though that taking shortstackers on is high variance.

Was just having trouble mostly with the good ones that seemed to be able to put me on a fairly accurate range and shoved the flop when it missed me. I'll have to try out the rest of the suggestions in that thread too. Thanks!

[Wardfish]

Short-stackers are not something you need to worry about much IMO.

Just dont give them excessive action and they wont do much better than break-even over the long-run.

More annoying for me: THEY TAKE UP A SEAT THAT COULD BE FILLED BY A DONK WITH A FULL BUY-IN.