NL10 88/99 overpair question. Have a general problem here.

[WantToLearn]

Again, advice needed, all comments welcome, and thank you very much in advance!

Ok, I have a real problem with 88 and 99. This problem comes up when these hands make an overpair to the flop, and the opponent is an o.k. player, capable of folding, of calling/raising c-bets simply because they are c-bets, and also capable of firing a second barrel when a c-bet did not result in a fold. In other words, people where it takes some time and investment to figure out where I stand. It´s kindof embarassing, but I am loosing money with 88 and 99, while BOTH the smaller and the bigger pocket pairs are good, with the one exeption of 33 - but that might be variance, as all the other small pairs do not show negative results.

So here´s two hands.
What´s your line here? How do you react and how far do you go, should he play strong, or stubborn respectivly?

<u>Reads:</u> Both villains are of the kind described above.


<font color="purple"> Hand #1 </font>

Poker Stars - No Limit Hold'em Cash Game - $0.05/$0.10 Blinds - 9 Players - (LegoPoker Hand History Converter)

SB: $9.00
BB: $3.30
Hero (UTG): $10.55
UTG+1: $9.70
MP1: $19.35
MP2: $9.00
MP3: $10.30
CO: $9.00
BTN: $19.40

Preflop: Hero is dealt 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (9 Players)
Hero calls $0.10, 6 folds, <font color="red">SB raises to $0.40</font>, BB folds, Hero calls $0.30

<font color="blue"> I might add that I normaly raise 88. Here, I was under the impression that there were quite some bad players at the table, and I was looking for a multiway pot, hoping for a set. </font>

Flop: ($0.90) 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 Players)
<font color="red">SB bets $0.70</font>, Hero ???

<font color="blue"> Now I limped, he raised. But he will sometimes (semi-)bluff bet into a raiser as well, so if you would also have some comments about a "I raise, he calls"-scenario, it would be greatly apreciated.</font>


<font color="purple"> Hand #2 </font>

Poker Stars - No Limit Hold'em Cash Game - $0.05/$0.10 Blinds - 9 Players - (LegoPoker Hand History Converter)

SB: $4.75
BB: $14.20
UTG: $7.50
Hero (UTG+1): $10.00
MP1: $9.85
MP2: $10.30
MP3: $12.90
CO: $1.70
BTN: $5.45

Preflop: Hero is dealt 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (9 Players)
UTG folds, <font color="red">Hero raises to $0.40</font>, 6 folds, BB calls $0.30

Flop: ($0.85) 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 Players)
<font color="red">BB bets $0.40</font>, Hero???

[AlexB182]

The question in hand 1 is how much you want to invest here. The aggressive approach would be raising here, firing another barrel if villain just calls. This can get kind of expensive though. If villain reraises, you can pretty much release safely.
Just calling does not make too much sense in spots like these IMO, simply because there are too much scare cards that can hit and that will make it impossible for you to call another bet.

I don't think BTW that hand 2 is a good example for the problem you described, in fact, it's a complete different thing.

[Jay.Yang]

hand 1: I call here and see the Turn card, especially that we have position on the villain.

hand 2: I usually do not proceed in this Flop. He prob doesn't have a flush yet, but if a 4th spade come, your hand is most likely 2nd best. Adding that there are two overcards on the board, I fold.

[gman339]

Hand 1: Call and re-evaluate turn.

Hand 2: With two overs and the flush, I fold. If another spade comes you still have no idea if you are ahead or behind.

[BotOnTilt]

On hand 1 I raise, villain will have a tough time calling OOP with overs and I'm not intending to give him free cards.

Hand 2 I fold. I don't see villain donk-betting anything we are ahead of.

[wikemang]

Hand 1: Calling and evaluating the turn makes no sense to me, because we have no idea where we stand on future streets. I think raising is the best option here.

Hand 2: Fold

[Larude]

Hand 1 really depends on his preflopraising range; I have been thinking about it and imagine he raises only TT+-AQ+ from the smallblind. TT+=5*12=60 ways, AQ+=32 ways. So you are a 1:2 dog. Now if you raise in this spot you are putting in like 2,10 to win 1,60 which is 1,3:1, so actually you would have to be a favourite to make this raise or have enough FE. With the raisingrange of villain as it is you can better no raise, also because he can have a flushdraw (unless you want to add in a large % of the time that you are going to represent a set ofcourse). If you want to continue against his tight range I think calling is a better option, you have position so you can see his turn action. But the problem with calling in this spot is that he loves to fire second barrels, a scared card could come on the turn or he could make a flush if he has AQs or AKs. Concluding against a tight raising range from the SB it isn't worth it to invest a lot of money if you missed the flop, unless you want to try to represent a set.

Hand 2, most people represent a fold, but BB's range is so wide here that I wouldn't blame you for raising; to me it looks like a blockbet with As; be prepared if you raise to fire the turn if he checks to you an a non spade comes off.