staking theory

kagame · #1 03-02-2006, 07:04 PM

does anyone have an equation for a fair staking deal for a winning player with the staker getting all rakeback?

like at a certain % of stake made back in rakeback eanings they get a larger % of their profits?

this is assuming small-medium winrate players that dont need much constant attention aside from occassional power coaching sessions/gameplay checkups

also, would a more efficient model for fairness based upon risk use % of stake won in staked player winnings+rakeback earned?

there has to be a perfect theory for risk based upon winrate /sd/# buyins remaining for each individual

even without all that info couldnt we create general rules?

this thread is about math but please feel free to discuss the psychology in a stake arrangement, fairness, etc

#2 03-02-2006, 07:23 PM

stake me

danny_nguyen · #3 03-02-2006, 07:32 PM

From what I've seen at the tables, I think kagame needs a stake.

BluffTHIS! · #4 03-02-2006, 07:56 PM

ZJ staked himself.

edge · #5 03-02-2006, 09:31 PM

That sounds like a lame staking agreement. Staker covers all losses and only gets rakeback? That's horrible.

mikechops · #6 03-02-2006, 10:25 PM

I don't think math is the best way to approach this. A winning player should be mathematically almost certain of winning over a decent number of hands and the "fair" percentage of profits the backer requires is going to be small. In practice the risks due to the winning player turning out to being a loser on a hot streak, uncomfortable playing at higher stakes with other someone else's money, or a chip dumper are what you should look at.

I'd guess that staking/coaching isn't particularly +EV. The winners will soon have the confidence and roll to make it without the staker. The losers will stay. Rather than being driven by economic motives on the part of the staker, I'd imagine most often these arrangements are born from a desire to do something non-zero sum and with a little more human interaction than playing on-line poker.

KaneKungFu123 · #7 03-02-2006, 10:41 PM

i stake chuddo. he keeps his rakeback and i get 35% of winnings while taking all losses.

RikaKazak · #8 03-03-2006, 12:32 AM

I was staked for 2 months when I first jumped to 5/10. I kept all rakeback, and the staker got 50% of my winnings and stood all of my loses.

Thremp · #9 03-03-2006, 01:46 AM

How do you find a someone to stake or someone to stake you?

BraveJayhawk · #10 03-03-2006, 02:17 AM

Staking is certainly +EV. I'll step up to the plate and agree with Kagame that this is more of a math question. However, I believe the psychology of the potential client, his/her current and past situations, and other criteria will directly affect the most appropriate formula.

I've had 6 clients thus far since June '05 and in 5 of the cases myself and my client came out ahead quite nicely. In one case we came very much ahead (a two week winning streak will do it).

Seriously though, do yourself a favor and take 100% of the rakeback and have a sliding scale based on rakeback earned for your client's percentage. You are doing him a great service here and should profit nicely. Remember you aren't just helping him during the time he is being staked. When you part ways, you will have given him the skills destined to profit him greatly in the future. If you have a client who was not going to play otherwise, he is not losing anything but only gaining every dollar he earns. Pay him for his time and success but pay yourself more for giving him a shot and shaping his game.

BraveJayhawk

P.S. You doubted me back in May but now have the nerve to say I should have 200K by now. You just cannot give me a grain of credit can you. Although your comment was made as an insult, I am flattered you thought I should have 200K in earnings by now. Don't worry though I'm not as far off as you think.