Flopped set on flush board, 300bb deep - best line?

trplthrt · #1 09-25-2007, 01:22 AM

I wasn't sure what the best line here was as the reraise size threw me... would it have been better to call and bump turn? I worried flush card would shut down the action.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $6 BB (4 handed) pokerhand.org hand converter

BB ($564)
UTG ($1840.95)
Hero ($1835.55)
SB ($609)

Preflop: Hero is Button with 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
UTG raises to $21, Hero calls $21, 2 folds.

Flop: ($51) 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
UTG bets $44, Hero raises to $160, UTG raises to $372, Hero raises to $1000,

Albert Moulton · #2 09-25-2007, 02:00 AM

If villain expects you to play flush draws fast like this, then you might get action with higher flush draws (like AhKh) and overpairs even for your whole stack on the flop.

So, play it fast. If it's set over set, then so be it. Assuming he has reason to believe that you play your draws fast as well as sets, as well as occasionally bluff-raising, then pushing over the raise to $372 might be better. It's an overbet, but it might look more like you have some kind of draw and don't want a call. So, if you think an overbet might look more like you have a draw to this villain more often than you have a set, then push instead of raise to $1000. It's not as if you can fold later in the hand for $800 more no matter what happens.

edit:

On the other hand, it might be good to call the reraise to $372. It might lead him to think that you have a draw many times. If calling the $372 will result in his firing a big turn bet to "protect" his hand, then risking an action-killing heart might be worth it to induce another big barrelf from OOP villain on a non-heart turn before you push.

I guess it all depends on what villain thinks you'll do with a draw. Take the call or push action depending on which action you think will most make him think you're drawing often enough for him to make a mistake either by calling a flop push, or leading into you on a non-heart turn for a very large bet.

luckychewy · #3 09-25-2007, 02:09 AM

reads aren't not important here.

Albert Moulton · #4 09-25-2007, 02:14 AM

[ QUOTE ]
reads aren't not important here.

[/ QUOTE ]

I just updated my post to try and add some thoughts regarding how some reads might change the best action to take. I think it boils down to trying to take a line that looks more like a draw of some sort to this particular villain than a set.

I suppose some reads on how tight he is when the pot gets big is worth knowing, too. Maybe there isn't enough of a read in the OP to help much with an optimal line.

trplthrt · #5 09-25-2007, 02:19 AM

Lets assume villain doesn't think I am crazy enough to get it all in with just a flush draw.. lets also assume we know villain has in two scenarios;

1) big pair
2) flush draw

I am not worried about a bigger set.

Albert Moulton · #6 09-25-2007, 02:24 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Lets assume villain doesn't think I am crazy enough to get it all in with just a flush draw.. lets also assume we know villain has in two scenarios;

1) big pair
2) flush draw

I am not worried about a bigger set.

[/ QUOTE ]

a) And what range does he put you on if you call his 3-bet?

b) And what range does he put you on if you raise, as in the OP?

c) And what range does he put you on if you push?

trplthrt · #7 09-25-2007, 02:27 AM

This is the reason for my post..

How do I get all the monies in the pot?

I obviously KNOW I have the best hand. If I could answer your questions I would play for the answer which gives me the widest range. The problem is, I don't know what that is.

Assume he thinks I am a solid player, and can get out of line occassionally, but not usually.

KeanuReaver · #8 09-25-2007, 02:34 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Lets assume villain doesn't think I am crazy enough to get it all in with just a flush draw.. lets also assume we know villain has in two scenarios;

1) big pair
2) flush draw

I am not worried about a bigger set.

[/ QUOTE ]

if this is the case i see absolutely no value in 4betting this flop. since you have position i think calling the 3bet and raising a non-h turn would be best.

Albert Moulton · #9 09-25-2007, 02:40 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Lets assume villain doesn't think I am crazy enough to get it all in with just a flush draw.. lets also assume we know villain has in two scenarios;

1) big pair
2) flush draw

I am not worried about a bigger set.

[/ QUOTE ]

a) And what range does he put you on if you call his 3-bet?

b) And what range does he put you on if you raise, as in the OP?

c) And what range does he put you on if you push?

[/ QUOTE ]

a) With the 2 hearts on the board, if you raise his cb but only call a 3-bet with tons of money still behind, he probably puts you on a draw like JTs/67s (probably without the hearts since that kind of monster draw he might think you'd play faster), a heart draw of some kind that only has 9-outs or 12-outs (like a pair+FD or gutshot+FD), or a pair like TT/JJ that you are raising over his cb to try and push him off missed overcards. If you'd have rr'ed TT/JJ preflop, then that comes out of his range for you. He might consider that you have a set, but he'd probably think you'd play a set faster given the drawish nature of the flop.

b) The line you took looks like top-two pair, or a set. He might consider that you have a combo draw (pair + FD or overcards + FD) or OESFD, but the size of your reraise to $1000 looks much more like a set than a combo draw because you raise an amount that (1) isn't all your chips while your "monster draw" has the most equity, and (2) won't leave enough if he calls to make a convincing second barrel when/if you miss your draw on the turn.

c) This looks like an over anxious set, an overplayed 2-pair, a big combo draw, a semi-bluff overbet with 9-outs to the nut flush. He might discount the 9-outer flush draw if you aren't that kind of LAGGY post flop player.

These are my guesses. Before picking an action, do you agree on how he might interpret your hand range for each of these actions?

Albert Moulton · #10 09-25-2007, 02:46 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Lets assume villain doesn't think I am crazy enough to get it all in with just a flush draw.. lets also assume we know villain has in two scenarios;

1) big pair
2) flush draw

I am not worried about a bigger set.

[/ QUOTE ]

if this is the case i see absolutely no value in 4betting this flop. since you have position i think calling the 3bet and raising a non-h turn would be best.

[/ QUOTE ]

I like this best. As I posted in another reply, this call will be most frequently misinterpreted by the OOP villain. He is most likely to bet again at a non-heart turn. And there will be no heart most of the time. You can then raise a good amount and make it really tough for him if he has an overpair or overcards with hearts.