PLO 25 - Did I play this wrap correctly

[JanelleBB7]

No reads... just want to check that I played this hand right.

Full Tilt Poker - Pot Limit Omaha Cash Game - $0.10/$0.25 Blinds - 9 Players - (LegoPoker Hand History Converter)

SB: $24.25
BB: $22.90
UTG: $18.40
UTG+1: $9.30
MP1: $39.25
MP2: $28.15
MP3: $8.85
Janellebb7 (CO): $15.00
BTN: $60.15

Janellebb7 posts $0.25
Preflop: Janellebb7 is dealt 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (9 Players)
2 folds, MP1 calls $0.25, MP2 calls $0.25, MP3 folds, Janellebb7 checks, <font color="red">BTN raises to $1.60</font>, SB calls $1.50, BB calls $1.35, MP1 calls $1.35, MP2 calls $1.35, Janellebb7 calls $1.35

Flop: ($9.60) Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (6 Players)
SB checks, BB checks, MP1 checks, <font color="red">MP2 bets $4.80</font>, Janellebb7 calls $4.80, 3 folds, MP1 calls $4.80

** Call good here?? Should I have just pushed here??

Turn: ($24) 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 Players)
MP1 checks, <font color="red">MP2 bets all-in for $21.75</font>, Janellebb7 calls all-in for $8.60, MP1 folds
Uncalled bet of $13.15 returned to MP2

*** had the odds to call his all in?

[chucky]

I would shove flop because the board is twice as likely to give you a straight he wont payoff than a paired board. Additionally shoving may fold out hands that split your outs.

[chucky]

Actually given the shortness of your stack, calling the flop is fine since you will give your opponent pot odds to fill up even if you hit on the turn. I expect some posters will admonish you for shortstacking.

[JanelleBB7]

actually i had lost some of my stack lol.. but i have short stacked before i admit it .. gulity.

[Buzz]

[ QUOTE ]
*** had the odds to call his all in?

[/ QUOTE ]Hi Janelle - You're getting about 3.8 to 1 pot odds to call. Will you win more than one time in five? (actually one time in 4.8)

Here's how to figure your pot odds:

Add what's in the pot to what MP2 adds to your part of the pot and divide by your cost.

($24+$8.60)/($8.60) = 3.8/1

(Division is a process that converts the denominator of a fraction to one while keeping the ratio of the numerator and denominator the same).

Get it?

MP2's betting looks suspiciously like maybe a set of queens or even nines. (Call, half pot raise, and then raise all-in after the three of hearts). MP2 might also have a heart or straight draw. And two pairs does not seem out of the question. Or MP2 could be bluffing or semi bluffing.

You win or tie if the river is a non-heart king, jack, ten, or eight, a total of ten cards. You may win or tie if the river is the heart king, jack, or eight, a total of three cards. However, you probably lose if the river is any one of thirty one other cards.

If we don't count the three hearts that make your straight one way or the other, an approach I'd use as a first approximation, then it's a little better than 3 to 1 that you'll miss your draw and lose. That's admittedly crude.

Meanwhile, you're getting almost four to one for your money.

When the odds you're getting for your money are better than the odds against making your hand, then I think you should call. Thus I think you should call MP2's all-in bet on the river.

(Someone else here can answer your other questions better than I can).

Buzz

[alavet]

wp sir

[Elrazor]

this is how i would play the hand as this looks like middle set or maybe AQ to me - any time you have 15 outs on any street you have to call since your chances of hitting are 2-1 (1.93-1 turn), and obviously the pot is laying you 2-1 if he bets the full pot, if he bets half the pot like here then even better you are getting 3-1

by the turn he obviously knows hes ahead so he shoves, but you are more than priced in and by calling here you actually on average make $12.09 slansky bucks by making the call

all in all pretty standard, wp nh gl

[Buzz]

[ QUOTE ]
his looks like middle set or maybe AQ to me

[/ QUOTE ]Elrazor - We're pretty close on the read.
[ QUOTE ]
any time you have 15 outs on any street you have to call since your chances of hitting are 2-1 (1.93-1 turn), and obviously the pot is laying you 2-1 if he bets the full pot, if he bets half the pot like here then even better you are getting 3-1

[/ QUOTE ]Yes. It's clearly not a fold on the second betting round.

Good reasoning and a nifty math short cut, but how do you get 15 outs? (Or was the 15 hypothetical)? I only count 13 outs after the flop, and fewer after the turn, because you have to depreciate hearts at that point.

With 13 outs, the fraction, instead of being 30/15, becomes 32/13, or about 2.5 to 1 instead of 2 to 1.

Buzz

P.S. For what it's worth, for the more complicated calculations involved in limit-Omaha-8, I routinely immediately depreciate some outs. For example, if you have 9 outs for a nut flush after the flop, but only figure to win high 80% of the time when you make the nut flush, then the 9 outs are really only worth 7.2 outs. (80% is a realistic figure for a nut flush draw in Omaha-8 when four opponents see an all high card flop. That 80% discounts for the board pairing when or after you make the flush.) I haven't thought a lot about the depreciation factor for pot-limit Omaha-high, but it seems to me it would still matter, much more so than for Texas hold 'em.

[Elrazor]

[ QUOTE ]
any time you have 15 outs on any street you have to call since your chances of hitting are 2-1 (1.93-1 turn), and obviously the pot is laying you 2-1 if he bets the full pot, if he bets half the pot like here then even better you are getting 3-1

[/ QUOTE ]Yes. It's clearly not a fold on the second betting round.

Good reasoning and a nifty math short cut, but how do you get 15 outs? (Or was the 15 hypothetical)?

[/ QUOTE ]

yes sorry i was speaking generally - if you have 15 outs as a minimum then its a clear mathematical error to not at least call. i counted 13 here also

[JanelleBB7]

Actually during the game I thought in my head I only had 12 outs because I only counted 3-8's foolishly but I still thought that was good enough to call at that point.


Ok so let me see if this is right.

So this is what I would do in the future... I add the pot $24 bucks to what I need to call $approx. 9 bucks here and then divide it by the 9 bucks and that gives me 3.8 to 1... so then I take the deck 48 and divide it by the outs and that gives me 3.7 to 1 which is the correct odds? Seems like a really close decision... almost even.

I can't do math on the same level as you guys. I know this is simple division here but when I am in the game, the time crunch is so stressful that I am often unsure that I made the right decision.

BTW I got berated for making the call and I thought to myself, I think I made the right call here because I had a wrap and I seriously doubted he had a flush draw.