I'm I being results oriented or did I play the hand fine?

hustler4life · #1 09-23-2007, 03:52 AM

No read on villian
Absolute Poker
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $0.10/$0.25
4 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
UTG: $28.73
Button: $22.25
SB: $20.98
Hero: $67.72

Pre-flop: (4 players) Hero is BB with J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
2 folds, SB raises to $0.75, Hero raises to $2.5, SB calls.

Flop: 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] ($5, 2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $2.5, SB raises to $5, Hero calls.

Turn: 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] ($15, 2 players)
SB bets $5, Hero raises to $17.75, SB calls all-in $8.48.
Uncalled bets: $4.27 returned to Hero.

River: 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] ($41.96, 1 player + 1 all-in - Main pot: $41.96)

Results:
Final pot: $41.96
SB Shows 8s 8d
Hero Shows Js Jh

I thought I played the hand fine, but all the other players at the table were commenting that they couldn't believe I'd stack off there. Any thoughts?

bknollenberg · #2 09-23-2007, 03:57 AM

well, what did you put him on that you were beating? as a general rule of thumb, minraises = GTFO!

mdm13 · #3 09-23-2007, 03:58 AM

For starters, just post the hand without results even in white and make title that doesn't imply that you got coolered. As for the hand I would probably call the minraise and see if he checks it down. The small turn bet(especially with just 8.5 more behind lol) probably says I have monster and I don't want to scare youuu but as played I dont think it's completely awful to play as you did and not give an unkown at 25NL credit.

kroeliewoelie · #4 09-23-2007, 04:26 AM

On the flop he shows enormous strength, so he either doesn't care (AA,KK, maybe QQ) or he hit the flop hard (TT,88,33) or he is a donkey (AT). The only draw out there is J9, which you don't play this strong. His bet sizing on the flop suggests he wants you in the pot, not out of the pot. This is a made hand. And there is no made hand you beat. So I suggest folding to the minraise on the flop, without reads.

kindergartencop · #5 09-23-2007, 06:23 AM

i think this is fine. maybe with history or reads you can fold, but i stack off here.

whyzze · #6 09-23-2007, 06:31 AM

your 3bet and your flop bet suck...they need to be bigger.

I see no reason to shove the turn. The draws just got there and the only thing you beat is a bluff. Just call and let him bluff again on the river if you are willing to get it in.

CrustyFace · #7 09-23-2007, 06:33 AM

I don't know what you aim to achieve raising the turn here. By all means bet out if he doesn't, but he isn't afraid of you raising on the previous street and its not very drawy.

Khumalo · #8 09-23-2007, 06:38 AM

I make it more pf, like $3 or $3.5. I also bet closer to 2/3 pot on the flop. Once he check-min-raises me, I use every available read I have on him in order to decide if I'm committed or should fold. For example, if he's tight / semi-decent (though not great) pf, I can sort of narrow his range when he calls my pf re-raise to something like most pocket pairs (with a smaller likelihood of the biggest and smallest ones, which might re-raise or fold) and big aces, KQs. The flop missed the latter and his raise seems to be inviting a call, so I start to wonder about sets, slow-played AA-KK, maybe something like 99 that's testing me for overcards.

If he's donkish, I give him a wider range and am happy to get it on the flop or turn. And if I had AA/KK myself, then I'm also happy to get it in, since JJ and QQ now lose to me.

So in conclusion, you were in a tough blind-v-blind spot, and lacking decent reads on villain, I don't think your line with JJ here is that -EV, since a typical micro-NL villain can easily play TP and even mid-pairs the way he played his set here.

kindergartencop · #9 09-23-2007, 06:44 AM

[ QUOTE ]
your 3bet and your flop bet suck...they need to be bigger.

I see no reason to shove the turn. The draws just got there and the only thing you beat is a bluff. Just call and let him bluff again on the river if you are willing to get it in.

[/ QUOTE ]

his 3 bet is a little more than three times and he has position, seems ok no? flop bet is def. small im with you here, turn 79 is only draw that hit? seems at nl 25 lots of randoms stack off here with top pair and some random bs pp, a8 etc?

whyzze · #10 09-23-2007, 06:52 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
your 3bet and your flop bet suck...they need to be bigger.

I see no reason to shove the turn. The draws just got there and the only thing you beat is a bluff. Just call and let him bluff again on the river if you are willing to get it in.

[/ QUOTE ]

his 3 bet is a little more than three times and he has position, seems ok no? flop bet is def. small im with you here, turn 79 is only draw that hit? seems at nl 25 lots of randoms stack off here with top pair and some random bs pp, a8 etc?

[/ QUOTE ]

The smaller the 3bet the more my calling range opens up. And your 3bets should almost always be the exact same size. Not a difference between when he raises 3x or 4x. If he minraises this is the size 3bet I would make. but he didn't.

Ok. So we beat some hands and we lose to some hands. Whatever this guy has he is willing to put more money in the pot with. Now we dont have the nuts. If we shove the turn we may fold out the few hands we beat. If we flat call his stupid tiny bet when its very possibly we are behind anyways maybe he will bet again with a hand that we beat. Or maybe he will check and we can make a valuebet. All I am saying is that if we are willing to get it in we will have a higher EV by waiting for the river.