Crazy live game again

[Aisthesis]

Somewhat different table configuration tonight (1/2/5), and I again bought in for $400.

I didn't notice as many flush chasers, but more boat chasers--like on straight boards, auto-call with any set. In unraised pots, of which there were quite a few (maybe 40% raised pots?), you'd typically get something like 4 callers on the flop, and for most, AA seemed bettable regardless of board into a field of around 7.

I didn't really get involved in anything serious for a fair while but did decide at some point (after more or less treading water) to buy for an extra $200. The game really plays like a 2/5, and there were just so many deep stacks playing like idiots that I thought having $600 at hand was a good idea. My plan in general at the moment (now that the PLO seems to have stabilized with 2 tables running tonight, so no lack of players) is to leave if get over $1,000. If I can get my roll in better shape, I'll probably revise that upward, but I'm not experienced in deep-stack PLO, and $1,000 in one shot is as much as I care to risk for now.

From the way the game was playing, I concluded that raising any truly premium from any position was a good idea. After I rebought, I just made it standard of $30-$35, thinking primarily of stack-depth (getting 5% in PF). Moreover, with the likely at least 4 and probably 5 callers, they did start to think twice about calling the flop with just any kind of junk (in unraised pots, one could almost say that the hand really began on the turn, and I wanted some degree of seriousness earlier than that). Also, there seemed a fair degree of disinclination to re-raise AA at this particular table. So, I included hands like KK97ss in LP (and would have raised KK97ds from anywhere) as well as the usual just good hands. I mention this simply because I was just a little looser with raises in LP (maybe 12% as guess) than in EP (probably more like 7%). Anyhow, what I really want when I hit the flop and am willing to bet is to be able to put my opponents on serious hands if they call a bet of $200 or so rather than having to deal with ridiculous runner-runner situations with 5 players seeing the turn.

Now a hand, that really plays itself post-flop, but which was my big hand of the night and kind of gives an idea of how all this was working (including the fact that they obviously realize I'm playing ultra-tight compared to the rest of the table and play a little differently against me as a result).

I have 9d9h8c6d in MP1, I believe it was, with around $550 in chips. The rock (player who won the last hand puts in $5 automatically and the PF action starts to his left) is in LP, so by the time it gets to me, most of the table has called, and I make it $30, getting 6 callers. By the way, I'm playing this game VERY nut-peddly--semi-bluffs, sure, but these are all going to be on big hands only in multi-way raised pots (in a limp pot, I'd definitely bet nut flush draw to checks, but that's about as far as I'd go).

Anyhow, I say all of this because I'd be very interested in feedback on that.

The hand is really more or less LC (except for the OOP raise): Flop comes 457 with 2 diamonds. I pot for $200 and get 1 caller. Turn offsuit 9 (no other flush draw), so now I have top set, nut straight, and presumably just blockers in diamonds. I pot again for stack, get a caller, and board pairs on the river, with a win for me.

I count my chips at $1,131, and leave the table when the blind comes around.

One other thing: I'm currently kind of liking the idea of buying in at first for $400, which is objectively short, until I get a feel for how the table is playing. Then possibly rebuying for a little more if I feel like it's appropriate, and otherwise just keeping around $400 in play.

[RoundTower]

i'm sure the players love you

[Parlay Slow]

LOL

[chucky]

Is your name Rolf?

[Aisthesis]

lol from me as well.

I will say this: When the PLO wasn't going strong, with too few players interested, and then the typical fish going busto multiple times (often within like 45 minutes) then leaving, I played a lot of times when I really didn't want to simply in the interest of getting the game established and keeping the table from breaking too quickly. Now, I really don't feel guilty about the hit and run, when we have a main table plus a must-move and even then sometimes a short waiting list.

But, RT, on a more substantive note, you're definitely one of the people here whose opinion I'd most value as to whether you think my overall strategy is sound--not just the leaving the table (that probably least of all, actually), but just overall tight, fair amount of raises from all positions (probably close to 10% of hands overall, at least as long as I can expect multiple callers and depending a little on the propensities to re-raise AA--I think that's pretty important specifically for KK and QQ raises), playing pretty nut-peddly, really anything I've said about my strategy and of course any suggestions on things I haven't thought of. I mean, I'm objectively playing a bit over my roll, and the hit-and-run is in part because of that.

But I'm also not avoiding still playing with as much as $900 and am hoping to get a bit more solid in my reads on the regulars and to get better at deep-stack PLO, which I think is an interesting game in itself (and, despite Rolf's rather bad reputation around here due to the short-stack aspect of his book, I thought his deep-stack stuff was very interesting and helpful to me--I don't even object to his short-stack strategy, it's just not very fun for me personally).

I'll even take a stab at a very rudimentary summary of playing a deep stack: Play tighter OOP (mainly more selective on side-cards with your big pairs) and looser with position, and use your stack to make a lot of bluffs with outs--and even some without outs (including big river bluffs). But that presupposes being able to put your opponents on hands pretty well (also helps having a tight reputation) and hence having quite solid reads. You don't want to be bluffing into some joker who'll call $800 on the river with top 2 pair when there's a plausible straight showing...

[alavet]

yes its sure would be kinda profitable but i think TAG style in the live games hurts you image dramatically

for me, you have to play crap sometimes, you def should show your bluffs to make a play with you intresting. in long term they just come to understand as minimum your style of play, and as maximum wouldnt ever play with you. and you def shouldnt use hit'n'run tactics its sooooo rude.

[Elrazor]

who cares whether you hit and run or not? you are there to make money not friends! [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

[Aisthesis]

Well, on the hit'n'run, my money's still in play. But they're going to have to win it back piecemeal (and in a later session) rather than all at one time.

On the TAG part and crap hands, I really disagree. As long as there are a few players who are going to call extremely thin, I'm perfectly happy playing TAG. As soon as they stop giving action, however, then I think it's time to switch gears, just betting a lot thinner (open-ender, nut flush with nothing, decent flush with TP, even occasionally complete air, stuff like that). I think that also means that you can be more inclined to play 3-card straight hands, but I really see it as pointless to play completely uncoordinated cards or even hands like QJ53. Ya can't really hit nuthin...

[Big Dave D]

In live games, unless you want to make variance part of your strategy, then TAG is definately the way to go. There is no need to add crap to your mix, as when you push your draws strong, that will give the illusion of action. Hit n running is bad, however, for a lot of meta-game reasons. It can decrease the action you are getting, for example, and it may make you unwelcome in the game or future games.

gl

bdd

[alavet]

you make money from the guys that probably has another goals. most of the fishes are a rich men which came to enjoy. sure there is no any problems with hit'n'run, tag style. etc. but you may get more if you play friendly (more laggish and dont hit n run)
about crap hands i meant it would be nice to make some intresting moves making you sort of unpredictable.

i dont know about situation at your poker club, but here in Moscow there are not so many players maybe 40 regulars in my poker club at all and i think the important part of the play let them win sometimes or at least make game with you interesting. just heard one man complained about "that pricky young guys comes shortstacked, play tight hit and run".