Fun with T6o! River question

[Clinger]

.50/1 game. Table is pretty loose, 4-6 players to the flop. No particular reads, but people have been betting often when checked to. Every hand reaches showdown. 9 handed.

Preflop comments are welcome, but I'm particularly interested in the river and possibly other postflop streets. So let's keep this from being nothing more than a preflop discussion.

Hero is BB with 10[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

UTG folds, UTG+1 folds,<font color="red"> MP1 raises</font>, MP2 calls, HJ calls, CO folds, Button folds, SB calls, Hero calls.

Flop (5 players, 10 SB): J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
SB checks, Hero checks, MP1 (the preflop bettor) checks, <font color="red"> MP2 bets</font>, HJ calls, SB folds, Hero calls, MP1 calls.

Turn (4 players, 7BB): 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
Hero checks, MP1 checks, MP2 checks, <font color="red"> HJ bets</font>,<font color="red"> Hero raises,</font> MP1 folds, MP2 calls, HJ calls.

River (3 players, 13BB): 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
Hero checks, MP2 checks, <font color="red"> HJ bets</font>, Hero...?

Not thrilled about our hand, but I believe folding is out of the question. Is this a raise or a call?

[kerowo]

Pre-flop is meh. If you have these questions about playing this post flop dump it pre-flop.

Why did you call the flop?
Why did you raise the turn?
What are you ahead of on the river?
Why do you think raising the turn but checking the river is good?

I doubt I'm calling this pre-flop. This isn't the hand you want to be playing against calling stations.

If I'm going to raise it's probably the flop, although it is so connected it isn't going to serve much purpose. You can probably dump it here.

The turn just added yet another scare card so I'm not sure what you were hoping to accomplish with a c/r.

River would be a bet fold the way you played it.

[marchron]

I don't know, I just came in to look at your avatar. Cracks me up every time, but especially in this case because I'm listening to "Enemy" by Days Of The New on SIRIUS 24, and Kornheiser is keeping the beat perfectly. <font color="white">Fold every single street. Your flight to RIO is on time.</font>

[Clinger]

[ QUOTE ]

Why did you call the flop?


[/ QUOTE ]

Because...
[ QUOTE ]

If I'm going to raise it's probably the flop, although it is so connected it isn't going to serve much purpose.


[/ QUOTE ]

The pot is big enough for us to continue, but because of where the raise came from we can't really protect. So I called planning to re-evaluate on the turn.

[ QUOTE ]

Why did you raise the turn?


[/ QUOTE ]

Because I think the 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] is a great card for us (judging by your post, you seem to disagree. Why?) It's very doubtful this card improved anyone to a better hand, because I don't see 74 or 42 cold calling preflop even in a pretty loose game, though I suppose it's possible. If we were ahead on the flop, and there's a good chance we were since the PFR didn't bet, we're probably still ahead.

Betting out doesn't protect our hand, so I check. When HJ bets, I'm raising to shut out the remaining players. I want folds from AK, AQ, KQ.

And I don't think HJ's bet is always a stronger hand than mine by any means.

[ QUOTE ]

What are you ahead of on the river?


[/ QUOTE ]

Mostly just bluffs. But if MP2 has A6 or 77-TT or a weak jack he would call one bet with but not two (again), the extra bet we invest from a c/r is well worthwhile.

[ QUOTE ]

Why do you think raising the turn but checking the river is good?

River would be a bet fold the way you played it.


[/ QUOTE ]

Because betting out on the river won't fold a better hand.

I don't feel like weaker hands will often call a bet. But HJ might try to steal it based on the pot size if he's holding a small pair or a busted draw.



So, all that said, I posted this hand because I was wondering if I'm overthinking any parts of this. Based on his line, I think I beat HJ more than 1 time in 7, and if MP2 will overcall with a hand that beats mine for one bet but not two, a raise is better than a call. I think?

[Clinger]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't know, I just came in to look at your avatar. Cracks me up every time, but especially in this case because I'm listening to "Enemy" by Days Of The New on SIRIUS 24, and Kornheiser is keeping the beat perfectly. <font color="white">Fold every single street. Your flight to RIO is on time.</font>

[/ QUOTE ]

Haha.

Well if nothing else, at least this thread was good for a little something then. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[Buzz-cp]

fold pre-flop
just call turn (fold is OK too)
fold river

You should learn how to assign a value to your hand on each street. I think you are probably misapplying SSHE concepts. Your hand is not very strong on any street, so you "protecting" is meaningless when you are behind, or have a weak draw.

Buzz

[kerowo]

[ QUOTE ]


Because I think the 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] is a great card for us (judging by your post, you seem to disagree. Why?) It's very doubtful this card improved anyone to a better hand, because I don't see 74 or 42 cold calling preflop even in a pretty loose game, though I suppose it's possible. If we were ahead on the flop, and there's a good chance we were since the PFR didn't bet, we're probably still ahead.

Betting out doesn't protect our hand, so I check. When HJ bets, I'm raising to shut out the remaining players. I want folds from AK, AQ, KQ.

And I don't think HJ's bet is always a stronger hand than mine by any means.



[/ QUOTE ]

A 3-straight board, 2 flush board with an overcard and not one but two people besides the pre-flop raisor interested isn't a good place for 2nd pair no kicker. You didn't give any reads so I'm not going to discount someone playing a weird hand like 74s because "they had a feeling." Really, the only card that helps you on the turn is another 6 or maybe the T. I'm not surprised if someone has a weak jack. I'm really not surprised if HJ saw how passive the people in front of him were on the turn and bet something suited, probably with a 5 or 6 in it.

You made this hand much harder than it needed to be because like Buzz said you didn't give it the correct value. "Protecting" a hand is fairly overrated at the micros because people take their marginal hands too far, this is good for made hands but not so much for even more marginal hands like yours in this hand.

[BigBadBabar]

fold pf