3-betting vs. Calling in position

[linuxrocks]

I have been thinking lately about taking more flops in position and wondering how the EV equation runs. The situation is like this. Typical 6-max game, OTB, you have a hand like AQo, KQs, KJs, 77, T9s etc. This range can be increased or decreased depending on the opponent, so I am not going to be too religious about it. A regular/slightly tight player raises from CO or MP and now we have three options.

1. 3-bet
2. Call
3. Fold

3-betting. A lot of good things can happen with 3-betting and I am sure most 2p2ers prefer doing this. Good thing is that

1. You take it down right there. Most regulars don't play 3-bet pots OOP especially against another regular. They either 4-bet or play pretty straight-forward.
2. Your opponent 4-bets and you have an easy decision. You know what to do with AQo if 4-bet, easy fold.

However,

1. You are making your opponent to play correctly some times. They are folding many worse hands pre-flop.

Total EV = 4.5BB * x + 13.5BB * y - 12BB * z

where x - you 3-bet, he folds
y - you 3-bet, he calls, you take it down on the flop.
z - he 4-bets, you fold losing the 3-bet amount.

Let's look at the call equation. Good thing about calling is that, most regulars c-bet on most flops. With good post-flop play, you can raise the c-bet or float and good things can happen. Obviously, this depends on your post-flop play. We also can play other marginal hands like QTs, KJs etc. Sure, you will run into difficult marginal situations. But, your opponents are also put to marginal decisions. Most regulars are just looking to take it down on the flop and it's amazing how much some people hate to see the turn.

Total EV = (4.5 + 7)BB * x - 3BB * y + BIGPOT * z

where x - you call, he c-bets, you raise, he folds and take it down. Assuming 7BB to be the usual c-bet.
y - you fold on the flop, losing 3BB
z - a tiny percentage of the time, you will be winning a big pot as your hand is well disguised.

Overall, to me it looks like calling is more +EV, if played well. We can also vary our play quite a bit, some times re-raising. For example, a hand like 88, I prefer to re-raise than just call. I haven't put in any percentages above, as there are many ways to come up with these numbers.

Thoughts, comments?

[linuxrocks]

Bump for evening crowd.

[tommo]

this is something thats been discussed a lot. take a search. I liked your post though

[linuxrocks]

[ QUOTE ]
this is something thats been discussed a lot. take a search. I liked your post though

[/ QUOTE ]

Sorry, I just can't get the right keywords for the search. Do you have links to any posts?

In general, any other comments on call vs. 3-betting ?

[AAismyfriend]

I cold call more than most in position, and it's yielded me good results. Also, I think if you are cold calling in position a lot it's important to merge your cold call/3betting ranges because you will be much easier to read if you don't.

[linuxrocks]

[ QUOTE ]
I cold call more than most in position, and it's yielded me good results. Also, I think if you are cold calling in position a lot it's important to merge your cold call/3betting ranges because you will be much easier to read if you don't.

[/ QUOTE ]

Right, I agree. Can you comment on cold-calling with hands like QTs, J9s ? These hands, we usually fold and even not 3-bet.