Live 20/40: Isolation Raise that Backfired

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8-handed 20/40 game. Four players range from horrible to just crappy. The other four are regulars or at least thinking & decent.

Villain 1 is the horrible player. He has been bleeding money since he sat down. Too passive. Seems confused. He has raised a few other times and I never saw what he raised with at a showdown. So I inferred is preflop raises have a larger than normal range.

Action: EP limper. Villain 1 in MP raises, I 3-bet out of the CO with black 8's. BB cold calls as does EP limper. Villain 1 calls. 4 to the flop for 12 SB. Tried to isolate villain 1 and I get all these cold calls. EP and BB are both passive and loose.

Flop: 4 4 5 with two spades.

Checked around to me. Easy bet. All call.

Turn: 5. All check to me. Hero???? (pot is 8 BB).

As played, I went with bet/fold here, thinking that a check behind basically gives the pot away. Or is it better to just check behind and say f-it there is a boat out there with villain 2 (in BB) or villain 3 (EP limper) and not put one more cent in the pot.

All comments welcome.

[PokerBob]

this turn is an easy bet.

[CardSharpCook]

what did you expect to happen when you 3bet pf? I have a hard time calling that a "backfire" when, to me, 4 to the flop is the expected outcome in this situation. You're in the CO with 3 players who have not yet acted and 2 players who are definitely seeing the flop. A backfire would be if the button 4bet and then you're facing two bets on a 7 high board or something.

Obv you're betting this flop, and obv they're all calling as they should (unless they raise). Obv you're betting this turn, and obv you're calling if raised, and calling any non-8 river.

[PokerBob]

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Obv you're betting this turn, and obv you're calling if raised

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i don't think calling a raise is obvious at all here.

[bovine_boat]

Bet/Fold seems fine. Call on the flop said nothing about the players hands, so there's no reason to fear 4/5 or a pocket pair, and EP will call down with an A. Real loose-passive players won't raise without a 4 or 5, so you are safe to fold to a raise, I think

[signal]

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I have a hard time calling that a "backfire"

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Okay, not a backfire. The two cold-calls I did not like with this flop.

As far as the turn goes. Easy bet. Fine, that is what I did. But, we can really call a turn raise here? What could I beat in that situation?

Sorry if this is an easy hand. I was just unsure with the EP and BB players in this hand.

[signal]

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i don't think calling a raise is obvious at all here.

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Right. OK that's what I thought. Calling a raise from the preflop raiser (villain1) would be easier to do than from BB or EP, but it still would be a tough spot, especially with BB and EP to act.

I am trying to save bets when I am beat and against a turn raise I thought this would be a good spot.
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So back to the hand:

Turn 5. Check to me. I bet. All call.

I was like wtf???

What rivers do you bet if checked to (8 obv) and what rivers if any do you call a donk bet from the field?

[bovine_boat]

I wouldn't call a donk bet, I don't think, except for 4 or 5. They have pocket pair, any A, or flush or straight draw maybe? Anyway, I guess I bet out with non-spade 9-K, to get paid off by smaller pairs and any A, but maybe that's too tight.

[Barry]

Heck this isn't even an isolation raise as there was 1 limper before Villian 1 raises. Very rarely in a 20 game do folks fold for 2 more when they've already limped.

You call him passive yet infer that his PF raise range is wide. That's a bit of a contradiction. You say you didn't see what he raised with. Why? Did everyone else fold or did he fold before showdown? There's a difference.

[*TT*]

pre-flop - you will never isolate, it will be at least 3-handed, if not more for sure.

flop - bet.

turn - bet.

because its a multi-way pot your opponents are unlikely to get frisky without a hand that beats yours, feel free to fold to a raise. Your hand will be good more than 1 in 8 times, which shows a positive return on your bet in a multiway pot. The pot is large, you gotta try!