Too fast with set?

[H20]

Villain is lag, is the pot big enough here that I should protect against backdoor draws and raise the flop?

Poker Room skin
Limit Holdem Ring game
Limit: $5/$10
8 players
Converter

Pre-flop: (8 players) Hero is CO with 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
UTG calls, UTG+1 folds, <font color="#cc0000">MP1 raises</font>, MP2 calls, Hero calls, Button calls, SB folds, BB calls, UTG calls.

Flop: J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (12.5SB, 6 players)
BB checks, UTG checks, MP1 checks, <font color="#cc0000">MP2 bets</font>, <font color="#cc0000">Hero raises</font>, 4 folds, MP2 calls.

Turn: 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (8.25BB, 2 players)
MP2 checks, <font color="#cc0000">Hero bets</font>, <font color="#cc0000">MP2 raises all-in $12.5</font>, Hero calls.

River: 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (10.75BB, 1 player + 1 all-in - Main pot: 10.75BB)


Results:
Final pot: 10.75BB

[mattnxtc]

Anybody wanting to call you is getting 7.75-1. You should generally get more callers so I like it.

[kimchi]

It's a pretty dry flop and you'll get a lot of callers if you played it slower. It's also a big pot however and people will be calling a raise relatively lightly.

Since the LAG was shortstacked - i don't think isolating him on the flop was a good move. I'd have looked to raise on the turn here.

[Absolution]

Pots don't get much bigger than this. Raise this for value and for protection against gutshots. With the MP almost all-in you could 3-bet this pre-flop.

[Absolution]

[ QUOTE ]
It's a pretty dry flop and you'll get a lot of callers if you played it slower. It's also a big pot however and people will be calling a raise relatively lightly.

Since the LAG was shortstacked - i don't think isolating him on the flop was a good move. I'd have looked to raise on the turn here.

[/ QUOTE ]

You want to win this pot on the flop.

[Oink]

[ QUOTE ]
It's a pretty dry flop and you'll get a lot of callers if you played it slower. It's also a big pot however and people will be calling a raise relatively lightly.

Since the LAG was shortstacked - i don't think isolating him on the flop was a good move. I'd have looked to raise on the turn here.

[/ QUOTE ]

Not raising the flop is terrible.

You say the flop is dry. Tak a look at it again and think about how many straight draws you want top charge as much possible.

Seriously! Not raising is [censored] up terrible

[Gurravasa]

I haven't played FR in a while but when MP2 gives us the oppurtunity to protect our hand on the flop it must be very stupid to not take advantage of that opportunity? We may not get the opportunity to protect on the turn and how nice would it be to loose 5BB when we call a raise by a rivered straight instead of winning 7BB when we successfully isolate the low-stack?

[kimchi]

[ QUOTE ]
Not raising the flop is terrible.

You say the flop is dry. Tak a look at it again and think about how many straight draws you want top charge as much possible.


[/ QUOTE ]

OK, point taken. Here's my ([censored] up) reasoning. I am probably playing these spots incorrectly, so please correct me if I'm wrong.

I just think the pot is so big on the flop that a raise on the flop isn't going to go far to protect our hand much. Anyone with a gutshot on the flop will still be getting correct odds to call whether we call or raise.

Anyone with a pair will happily overcall, but will probably fold to a raise (unless it's a big Jack). Don't we want pairs to call (and play incorrectly) as they're almost drawing dead?

A raise on the turn will give people still drawing less favourable odds.

If the LAG had a decent stack btw, I'd be raising this on the flop.

Go easy on me [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

As a side note, is anyone 3-betting this pre-flop? The LAG is shortstacked and raising should buy the button, clear the blinds and possibly UTG too giving us position and dead money 3-way....or are we over cold-calling to encourage multi-way action and try to flop a set?

[JacksonTens]

[ QUOTE ]
Not raising the flop is terrible.

[/ QUOTE ]

Who spawns these crazy statements?

'Terrible' is not for this spot. It would hardly be terrible to call here...

JT

[TheHip41]

NH