NL25 JJ gets reraised preflop and hits bottom set

[Timba]

hi, first of all im from germany so please excuse my bad english. i would like to get some opinions on this hand. i dont use pokertracker so i cant post any stats.
my opponent was playing very tight so far, this was the first time he made a preflop reraise.
i have two questions about this hand:
would you reraise him again preflop and is there any way to fold this hand after the flop? <font color="white"> </font>

Party Poker - No Limit Hold'em Cash Game - $0.10/$0.25 Blinds - 9 Players - (LegoPoker Hand History Converter)

SB: $25.00
BB: $21.46
UTG: $21.21
UTG+1: $4.65
MP1: $24.30
MP2: $16.27
MP3: $8.83
Hero (CO): $11.39
BTN: $24.85

Preflop: Hero is dealt J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (9 Players)
5 folds, <font color="red">Hero raises to $1.00</font>, <font color="red">BTN raises to $1.75</font>, 2 folds, Hero calls $0.75

Flop: ($3.85) A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 Players)
<font color="red">Hero bets $2.75</font>, <font color="red">BTN raises to $5.50</font>, <font color="red">Hero raises all-in to $9.64</font>, BTN calls $4.14

Turn: ($23.13) 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 Players - 1 All-In)

River: ($23.13) 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 Players - 1 All-In)

Pot Size: $23.13 ($23.13 Rake)

<font color="white"> </font> BTN had K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (three of a kind, Kings) and LOST (-$11.39)
Hero had J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (three of a kind, Jacks) and LOST (-$11.39) <font color="white"> </font>

[wallenborn]

You played it fine, except you should have lost more.

[ninjadanger]

I would put in another raise pf since you opened the pot from the CO and button could just be on a resteal, especially with the weak minraise. once you get to the flop I don't see how you could get away from it. shove those chips in and curse when he turns up a monster.

[CaptVimes]

[ QUOTE ]
You played it fine, except you should have lost more.

[/ QUOTE ]

What he means is that you should have a full stack. You lose too much value when you cannot take a full stack when you flop a set.

This hand is just variance.

[Sounded Simple]

Tricky hand and there are so many draws/redraws that you would need pokerstove to work it all out.
However with your stack size Im not laying down a set.

How many hands have you played with him? Its quite possible to go 50+ hands and never have somthing worth raising pre-flop (even with a fairly wide raising range)

Best advice I can give here... Pokertacker.

[Timba]

thanks for your replies.
i normally start with $15, but i lost $5 in a preflop all in with AsKs against a shortstack with A8o (of course he ran away after the hand, thats the empty seat), but i agree that a max buy-in is probably better.

so you all agree that im doomed on this flop, but what about the preflop play? would you push or just call like i did?

btw nice avatar simple [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[AlexB182]

I HATE pushing PF with JJ, only do it in very rare cases with very good reads against real donks.
And yes, I think you had to lose a lot of money with this flop...

[RiverMustelid]

Welcome to the forum

There are a few general things
1) Poketracker is worth it - use it to analyse your game and you will improve
2) You learn more using a full stack. If you have an edge you can extract more. If you dont feel you have an edge buy in full at lower stakes till you acquire one [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

On the hand, I think you played it fine. By the way, don't show the results, because analysis gets skewed by them

[wallenborn]

[ QUOTE ]
so you all agree that im doomed on this flop, but what about the preflop play? would you push or just call like i did?

[/ QUOTE ]

You're too deep to push, and too short to call, that's how your stack size works against you.

Think about his range. You describe him as "very tight". What does a very tight player 3-bet you with? AA (6 combos), KK (6), maybe QQ(6) and JJ(1), as well as AK (16) and maybe AQs (4). You're a slight favourite over a little more than half of his range, and a big underdog against the other half. So you'd need a lot of dead money in the pot to profitably push preflop. You can do that with less than 20BB , but in this hand you have too many chips to push.

To call, on the other hand, you need good implied odds, in case you hit your set and the flop has an A or K. The rule of thumb here is that you need to win around 10-12 times the chips you've put in to see the flop to make playing for set value profitable. In this case, he reraised to $1.75, so you'd need at least around $20 to call for set value. You don't have enough chips to call for set value.

On the flop, you know he has hit something big. He's not going to do that with QQ or AQs, so you can narrow his range to AA (3 possible combos left), KK (3), AK (9). Now you beat most of his range, so you have to get all your chips in. Cooler that he had Kings, but set-over-set happens, and in the long run you'll stack him just as often when you have the bigger set, so don't worry about it.

[No1Addict]

I agree of wallenborn's pre-flop analysis. I would have found this to be a good spot to fold jacks.

Once you have the set though I don't think you can fold for how much money you have behind.