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  #1  
Old 09-17-2007, 10:18 AM
Specialwon Specialwon is offline
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Default NL50: 3betting OOP with marginal hands

This is one of a series of hands recently where I have wanted to 3bet but was unsure if it was the right play. The typical scenario is loose villain in mid-late position, me in the small or sometimes big blind with AJ0 or AQo.

Villain is 40/16 over a very small sample, maybe 20 hands at that point.

Poker Room skin
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $0.25/$0.50
10 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
UTG: $50.00
UTG+1: $37.80
UTG+2: $43.75
MP1: $34.00
MP2: $53.05
MP3: $98.75
CO: $44.75
Button: $55.45
Hero: $48.25
BB: $95.15

Pre-flop: (10 players) Hero is SB with A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

4 folds, <font color="#cc0000">MP2 raises to $2</font>, 3 folds, Hero 3 bets?
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  #2  
Old 09-17-2007, 11:30 AM
Specialwon Specialwon is offline
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Default Re: NL50: 3betting OOP with marginal hands

bump
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  #3  
Old 09-17-2007, 11:36 AM
AlexB182 AlexB182 is offline
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Default Re: NL50: 3betting OOP with marginal hands

I don't know whether AJ is the kind of hand I want the pot to get to big wtih, especially OOP. Basically, there are very few flops you will really like...
I'd probably three bet with AJs (or hands like AQ, 99+) but simply call here with AJos.
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  #4  
Old 09-17-2007, 11:45 AM
Specialwon Specialwon is offline
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Default Re: NL50: 3betting OOP with marginal hands

I hear that, but is just calling really any better? We still have the problem of dominance and we have no chance to win the hand on the spot.

Point about 3betting is that I would expect a fold at least half the time if I am doing it right.
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  #5  
Old 09-17-2007, 11:54 AM
AlexB182 AlexB182 is offline
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Default Re: NL50: 3betting OOP with marginal hands

[ QUOTE ]
I hear that, but is just calling really any better? We still have the problem of dominance and we have no chance to win the hand on the spot.

Point about 3betting is that I would expect a fold at least half the time if I am doing it right.

[/ QUOTE ]

You make a good point here, it's def questionable if calling is any better. But besides the PF FE you're mentioning (which I don't think is very high against most players running 40/16), what do you achieve? How do you continue in a now big pot after a three bet when an A hits on the flop? What do you against a (rare) 4 bet?
The one advantage of calling is IMO, that if we hit a nice flop, we can use his agressiveness to get a lot of value out of this hand. But I would also like to hear some more opinions on that topic.
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  #6  
Old 09-17-2007, 12:51 PM
Specialwon Specialwon is offline
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Default Re: NL50: 3betting OOP with marginal hands

Bump for our american friends.

FWIW I folded here, b/c I was too chicken to 3bet and I didn't like a call as per above.
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  #7  
Old 09-17-2007, 01:14 PM
seki seki is offline
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Default Re: NL50: 3betting OOP with marginal hands

I 3bet or fold this, depending on my image. Most 40/16 will give up a steal to a 3bet from a tighty, assuming you make the raise reasonably sized. If you've been 3-betting often, or saw a showdown in a pot where you 3-bet with anything other than AK/AA/KK, I'd fold this a very large percentage of the time. If you've been card dead and/or nitty, a 3-bet here takes the pot pf a large percentage of the time, and discourages villain from popping your blinds too often. I really don't like a call here. AQo/AJo/KQo type of hands are just painful OOP, even heads up with a tard.
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  #8  
Old 09-17-2007, 01:36 PM
ship_it_trebek ship_it_trebek is offline
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Default Re: NL50: 3betting OOP with marginal hands

It's only 20 hands and playing AJ oop is a nightmare. You're losing a large pot or c-betting and taking down a smallish pot.
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  #9  
Old 09-17-2007, 01:54 PM
Johnes Benjamin Johnes Benjamin is offline
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Default Re: NL50: 3betting OOP with marginal hands

I really hate calling here. Sometimes I would 3bet but more than half the time I am tossing it.
I don't think I ever call, I am very concerned about being in control of the hand if I am involved.
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  #10  
Old 09-17-2007, 02:07 PM
xxrod17xx xxrod17xx is offline
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Default Re: NL50: 3betting OOP with marginal hands

I 3-bet against certain opposition (although rarely) i would say i fold PF 85% of the time 3-bet 15%
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