Huge pot with KTo

[Lethe]

$4/$8 at the B&M

MP is fairly loose, but isn't a complete moron. He might be a break even player.

CO is also loose and peels flops VERY light. Basically if he has any piece he is seeing a turn.

Button is tight and passive.

3 limps to hero who limps KTo in the HJ. CO, Button, and blinds all call.

Flop (8sb): Ks Th 4s
checked to MP who bets, I raise, CO and button cold call, MP 3bets, I cap, CO calls, Button calls.

Turn: (12bb): Jd
MP checks, I bet, CO raises, button 3bets, MP thinks and then calls, hero ?

[Niediam]

Assuming that nobody has KJ you are getting around the right odds to draw for a K or T. Add in the fact that you still may be ahead and I can't see a fold.

[Lethe]

I'm getting 21:2 to call here, which would be just enough to call for 4 outs.

But do I really have 4 outs here? What is MP 3betting the flop with and calling 3 on the turn with that doesn't include a K or a T? He has 2 pair or a set here basically always, and unless he has 44 that means he has at least one, maybe 2 of my outs.

I'm also not closing the action. CO is still behind me and could easily cap here. I'm guessing the times he caps he probably has a straight, and the times he calls he probably has KJ or JT. I could be drawing to as few as 1 or 2 outs.

Taking all this into consideration, are you still calling?

[KitCloudkicker]

I hate KTo personally so I would fold pf. but limping probably isnt bad.

as played I fold the turn. you are drawing to 4 outs and may have less than that.

[Dagger78]

I doubt you're ahead, you don't have 4 outs. Seems like this hand is heading for the muck.

[dedenburn]

[ QUOTE ]
you still may be ahead

[/ QUOTE ]

I very seriously doubt there is any chance of being in the lead when a tight passive player 3 bets this turn, never mind what CO is so in love with.

[mikeca]

I only play KTo from the button and maybe the CO. I usually fold it in the HJ after limpers.

On the turn the tight passive button 3 bet. That is a bad sign. He might have AQ, JJ, KJ or JT. You are only ahead of JT. How passive is the button? Would he limp AQ or JJ?

This is a tough spot. With multiple opponents at least one of which is tight and passive, I would probably fold.

[Lethe]

Yes, there is zero chance I am ahead at this point.

Button is definitely passive enough to limp AQ and JJ. There was basically only two hands I could put button on at this point in the hand - AQ, and Q9. I don't think he would call two bets twice on the turn with an underpair so JJ is out. I am way behind here and drawing to 4 outs at best.

When I was playing this hand I did a quick calculation and decided I had odds to call but I gave myself way too many outs and forgot that I wasn't closing the action. After thinking about it after the fact, this is absolutely a clear fold as I never have more than 2 or 3 outs since I'm sharing outs with at least one of MP and CO almost all the time.

As a side question/comment from this hand, I often feel unsure about hands like offsuit KJ, KT, QJ, QT preflop. Although skillwise I feel I have a large edge over most of my opponents, I'm not sure how profitable these hands are in a lot of situations in small stakes holdem. What would you do in these 3 situations:

1. 2 loose limpers in the CO. HJ? Button?
2. 4 loose limpers in the CO with KJ/KT/QJ/QT. Button?
3. 6 loose limpers in the CO.

I usually only raise these hands if it's one or two limpers to me in the CO or Button, and limp from HJ-button, folding all other positions. Is this correct in typical small stakes games?