AK Move In Question

[David Sklansky]

Forgive me if this has been discussed before.

Nine handed 25-50 game with typical players for those stakes. They all have you covered. Early position brings it in for 200. Three callers. You have AK in the big blind.

Obviously with any kind of shortish stack you would move in. My question is how big does that stack have to be before you would seriously consider not moving in? And how would being suited change your answer?

[AZK]

5k?

[Parlay Slow]

About $4500 and suitedness should make a diff because it drastically affects your equity against AA.. but that's just a quick response

Easy calculation if you make the simplifying assumption of:

1. No one other than initial raiser can ever have a good enough hand to call

2. Raising range of initial raiser is a typical tight one for UTG (AQs, AK, TT+)

3. Initial raiser will call with KK and AA

If I had more curiosity about the question I'd calculate it.. maybe I will later

edit: ok here's my calc

AQs, AK, TT+ when YOU have AK is 36 different possible combinations that he is raising with. He'll call with only KK and AA so that's only 6 combinations. He calls 1/6 of the time.

Your equity against AA/KK with AKo+AKs is 80/20

EV = 5/6*(200+200+200+25+50) - (1/6)*(0.8-0.2)(stack size)

Solve for stack size

562 - 0.1*stack size

So if your stack size is like 5.6k it becomes EV neutral

If you are specifically suited you can push for about 6.2k
If you are specifically unsuited you can only push for about 5.4k

This doesn't truly answer the question because you must evaluate this in comparison to the EV of playing the hand in other ways.

AZK are you saying that in the BB with 100BBs if someone raises 4x BB pf you will just move in? Seems a little drastic to me.

[gomberg]

Intuition - I'd say about $3.5k as that is about 3x pot raise...

[AZK]

I am saying if utg raises to 200 and nothing is out of the ordinary and he gets 3 callers I don't really have a problem throwing 4-5k all-in as a short stack...

Edit: I am assuming this is a live, deep game...online I probably wouldn't feel as hot.

[ahnuld]

lets assume its online. I wouldnt feel comfortable, (especially if he was TAG) doing this with say, more than 1200.

[AZK]

online it's much different. Even still, you need to get much more comfortable doing this with more money than 1200, if you don't you will get run over.

[BluffTHIS!]

1000/1500

The walk back to Houston is hot and dusty in the summer.

[ezratei]

[ QUOTE ]
online it's much different. Even still, you need to get much more comfortable doing this with more money than 1200, if you don't you will get run over.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't see how folding AK here with a 5k stack will cause you to "get run over". I think that dumping here could be seen as a very good play.