Sick Laydown - Fold or Shove ?

AKingdom · #1 09-16-2007, 05:38 AM

Don't usually feel the need to post hands but this one has me troubled, laying this hand down made me sick.

I had no reads on villain as he was new to the table.

I found the action so strange because he limps UTG, then when I make a big 3bet on a middle position raiser from the BB everyone folds except the UTG limper who smooth calls. Now if he has AA, he's gotta 4bet here no? So the flop comes down jack high and he raises my cbet [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]. So at this point IMO it's really either push or fold and I reluctantly folded. I'm thinking this guy may have had me beat with JJ or was way behind with QQ. AA was a fear I had but didn't make too much sense given the preflop action. Also I would rule out lower pockets given my large reraise. AJ maybe if villain is a fish. Did he put me on AK and not give me credit for a big hand? Anyways here's the HH, please let me know what you guys think.

Full Tilt Poker - No Limit Hold'em Cash Game - $0.10/$0.25 Blinds - 8 Players - (LegoPoker Hand History Converter)

SB: $24.75
Hero (BB): $47.75
UTG: $37.60
UTG+1: $9.95
MP1: $8.60
MP2: $12.55
CO: $30.75
BTN: $87.45

Preflop: Hero is dealt K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (8 Players)
UTG calls $0.25, UTG+1 raises to $0.50, 3 folds, BTN raises to $0.75, SB folds, Hero raises to $4.75, UTG calls $4.50, 2 folds

Flop: ($10.85) J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 Players)
Hero bets $8.50, UTG raises to $17.00, Hero folds
Uncalled bet of $8.50 returned to UTG

Pot Size: $27.85 ($1.35 Rake)

whyzze · #2 09-16-2007, 05:43 AM

nice hand.

imo this guy has a set 100% of the time. That being said, when he doesn't hit a set he is folding. So your cbet doesn't need to be that large...6-7 should do the job.

DaycareInferno · #3 09-16-2007, 07:00 AM

i dunno. i think its a bad fold. villain is a fish, so you can't limit his range that much. he's playing with a 2/3 stack, and doesn't have the odds to limp/call your bet an play for a set. he then minraises you on the flop, which is pretty stupid, considering that you either have an overpair or air here most of the time. against an unknown, i'm never folding this, because this guy is just going to be an idiot with something stupid too often.

Bruut99 · #4 09-16-2007, 07:05 AM

Im gonna reraise all con-bets from now on..

BishopsFinger · #5 09-16-2007, 07:33 AM

jesus christ shove this.

folding here is uber weak and you likely have his minraising range crushed.

whats more - once you shove you will get calls from the good jacks etc so you can extract sick value.

#6 09-16-2007, 08:23 AM

How did villain accumulate his chips ? I shove this all day. You will see villain come up with some goofy hands all the time... If he has a set, meh

AKingdom · #7 09-16-2007, 08:25 AM

Yeah fold didn't sit well with me, there are only two hands I'm not beating here (AA and JJ). I may have given villain too much credit.

It's just that preflop, I reraised a raised pot to 5$! If this doesn't scream KK or AA, I don't know what does. So flop comes jack high and he's gonna raise me with AJ!?

I do agree about his minraise (although necessarily large at this point) was kinda strange, it's as if he wanted to know where he stood rather than defining a stronger hand. The more I think about it the more I think he had QQ. This would explain the UTG limp and flat calling 5$ raise and then minraising my cbet on a jack high flop.

freeucm · #8 09-16-2007, 08:27 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Im gonna reraise all con-bets from now on..

[/ QUOTE ]

They never thought of this, how about a check call on flop.

AKingdom · #9 09-16-2007, 09:42 AM

Cleaner FWIW this is where villain accumulated his chips:

Full Tilt Poker - No Limit Hold'em Cash Game - $0.10/$0.25 Blinds - 8 Players - (LegoPoker Hand History Converter)

SB: $9.70
BB: $22.05
UTG: $32.45
UTG+1: $60.55
MP1: $19.95
MP2: $26.65
Hero (CO): $50.55
Villain (BTN): $27.20

Preflop: (8 Players)
5 folds, Villain raises to $0.75, SB folds, BB raises to $1.75, Villain raises to $2.75, BB calls $1.00

Flop: ($5.60) K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 Players)
BB bets $3.75, Villain raises to $7.50, BB calls $3.75

Turn: ($20.60) 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 Players)
BB checks, Villain bets $11.80, BB folds
Uncalled bet of $11.80 returned to Villain

Pot Size: $20.60 ($1 Rake)

I was multitabling and didn't see this hand go down but after looking at this I'm thinking he seems TAGGY and I'm definitely leaning towards bad fold me.

#10 09-16-2007, 03:02 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I was multitabling and didn't see this hand go down but after looking at this I'm thinking he seems TAGGY and I'm definitely leaning towards bad fold me.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ok, just thought it might give you some info of villain. As said before, just shove. That is such a dry flop, and villain knows you will fire there with AK, TT etc ...
If he really is holding a set it`s a cooler, I would just get the money in.