Common situation with awkward stack sizes $4.40

[markbris]

I run into this situation fairly often. Usually there is either one or two limpres in front of me but I hold a hand like AQ or 1010 that figures to be ahead of their range. However, a normal raise with compensation for the limpers leaves me lil room to work with on the flop, like a psb. And if the flop comes bad for my hand Im left unsure of what to do. Whats the best move, is an allin too big, how about playing smallball kinda with a small raise to like 200 knowing you will get played with, or a normal raise to like 300 or so? Lots of options, need some advice.


PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t50 (8 handed) internettexasholdem.com

Button (t1130)
SB (t4400)
BB (t1660)
UTG (t1323)
UTG+1 (t7385)
MP1 (t6245)
Hero (t1185)
CO (t2570)

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, UTG+1 calls t50, MP1 calls t50, Hero ?

[Butcho22]

shove with that stack and two limpers for sure

[Winwood]

I have the exact same problem and I was about to post the same question ... although I find the problem more post flop - for eg...

PokerStars Game #12020378930: Tournament #60989660, $4.00+$0.40 Hold'em No Limit - Level VIII (200/400) - 2007/09/12 - 16:49:27 (ET)
Table '60989660 19' 9-max Seat #9 is the button
Seat 1: Mario300000 (5720 in chips)
Seat 2: Ralf2405 (5493 in chips)
Seat 4: UserZocker (16406 in chips)
Seat 5: thenutzso (9545 in chips)
Seat 6: Pentagruel (10581 in chips)
Seat 7: xxAngéxx (5708 in chips)
Seat 8: pokerskunk (5965 in chips)
Seat 9: bray444 (6320 in chips)
Mario300000: posts the ante 25
Ralf2405: posts the ante 25
UserZocker: posts the ante 25
thenutzso: posts the ante 25
Pentagruel: posts the ante 25
xxAngéxx: posts the ante 25
pokerskunk: posts the ante 25
bray444: posts the ante 25
Mario300000: posts small blind 200
Ralf2405: posts big blind 400
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to bray444 [Kh Qd]
UserZocker: calls 400
thenutzso: folds
Pentagruel: folds
xxAngéxx: folds
pokerskunk: calls 400
bray444: calls 400
Mario300000: calls 200
Ralf2405: checks
*** FLOP *** [9s 6s Qh]
Mario300000: checks
Ralf2405: checks
UserZocker: checks
pokerskunk: checks
bray444: bets 5895 and is all-in

... its clearly an overbet but when any decent bet leaves you committed anyway - I guess the only thing is to shove?

[erc007]

[ QUOTE ]
I run into this situation fairly often. Usually there is either one or two limpres in front of me but I hold a hand like AQ or 1010 that figures to be ahead of their range. However, a normal raise with compensation for the limpers leaves me lil room to work with on the flop, like a psb. And if the flop comes bad for my hand Im left unsure of what to do. Whats the best move, is an allin too big, how about playing smallball kinda with a small raise to like 200 knowing you will get played with, or a normal raise to like 300 or so? Lots of options, need some advice.


PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t50 (8 handed) internettexasholdem.com

Button (t1130)
SB (t4400)
BB (t1660)
UTG (t1323)
UTG+1 (t7385)
MP1 (t6245)
Hero (t1185)
CO (t2570)

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, UTG+1 calls t50, MP1 calls t50, Hero ?

[/ QUOTE ]

At a loose table i would just limp AQs here. There will prob be at least 2-3 more in the pot and your hand plays well in multiway pots. If someone gets aggro and raises from LP, or the blinds, you can shove with good equity.

Raising to 350 and getting it in on any flop is not bad either, but i like this play better with TT-AA.

[kenny7]

This is a really good question,I have exactly the same problem when the stacks are this akward.

I think I like erc007's solution. I never limp in this situation,just absolutely hate doing it with a hand like this,but maybe it is an option. I'm not sure that I agree this hand plays well in a multiway pot,unless you proceed with caution after the flop.Depends on the texture of the flop ofcourse,but I dunno...why do you think it does well multiway?

I like the idea of limpimg or raising big a helluva lot more than shoving though.With these stacks,you are virtually turning your cards face up if you shove pre,It is always AJ/AQ or mid pp.

[Sherman]

I like making a bigger raise than normal, say to t350 or t375 and shove any flop. Go and Go style.

Anyhow, I like this better than a normal raise b/c then your bet on the flop is ~PSB. Your hand is too valuable to limp with IMO. Also, a Go and Go works great in this spot b/c even if you miss the flop and get called, you likely have outs to TP; making your flop shove a semi-bluff rather than an outright bluff. So doing this with something like 44, is not so good IMO.

[BlueEcho]

Sherman,

You like a Go and Go better than just shoving? Certainly with the stacks of UTG+1 and MP1 you can expect a wide calling range that we crush. A go and go, while it helps them make a mistake by folding on the flop also allows them to play it perfect at the same time no? BTW my last sentence confused even me. I'm not saying I don't like the idea, I'm just questioning it being better than a shove here.

I guess to simplify things I like getting my chips in against a range that I'm pretty sure I'm crushing especially since I'm pretty sure I'm gonna get a call. Also, I'm happy with no callers as well. I do recognize it as a bit of an overbet. But when the chances of getting called by a worse hand are pretty likely I like my money in the middle. To further that, don't we want full value of our stack instead of letting villian off at a 1/3 of the price?

IMO Shove &gt; Go and Go &gt; Limp

[Sherman]

Shoving 1.1K into a t175 pot seems like a huge overbet to me and I don't know why anyone would call us.

We are still getting full value out of our stack b/c our plan is to put it all in on the flop. No hand that villain's hold PF can profitably call our 1/3 stack raise and then shove on the flop.

Basically, by putting in 1/3 of our stack PF, we play perfectly post flop. We have no decisions to make b/c we are committed to the pot. In the meantime, we do not let our opponents play perfectly at all (unless they fold PF). Many villain's will ignore the fact that we have put in 1/3 of our stack PF and call. Then we put them to a difficult decision on the flop b/c they did not properly plan their hand.

Unless we expect villain's to call very wide PF (which seems ridiculous to me; but it may not be) I'm pretty confident that a go and go is the optimal line. I suppose if they will call PF with a really wide range we gain more by shoving PF.

[Butcho22]

I thinking limping is so gross here. I would never, ever ever limp.
I shove every time because A)Taking down 175 pre is pretty good for us at this point, B)One of the big stacks will often call us with what is almost certainly a weaker hand. AJ/KJ/QJ, etc..

Sometimes we'll race 88 but that's fine too with our stack.

[markbris]

As far as a go and go, I was under the impression that works better when you are oop so you get to act first and shove. If we get a call and we are in position, and they lead into us on a bad flop are we still just shoving it? I hate limping btw too. Why limp when we know we are ahead of limpers ranges and could get value from a raise?