Here's another one that got me

[Im_new]

Alright, the bubble burst a few hands ago. The SB guy has been playing very well, despite a few UTG limps earlier in the game. The button hasn't played many hands lately. It was almost like he was in submission or something.

The situation had arisen three times in a row. Was the push here correct, even though the small stack was giving away his chips?

$2 Single Table S-N-G
Full Tilt Poker
No Limit Holdem Tournament
Blinds: t100/t200
3 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
Button: t1145
SB: t10500
Hero: t1855

Pre-flop: (3 players) Hero is BB with Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
Button folds, <font color="#cc0000">SB raises to t600</font>, <font color="#cc0000">Hero raises all-in t1855</font>, SB calls t1255 <font color="aaaaaa">(pot was t2355)</font>.

Flop: 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (t3710, 1 player + 1 all-in - Main pot: t3710)


Turn: T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (t3710, 1 player + 1 all-in - Main pot: t3710)


River: K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (t3710, 1 player + 1 all-in - Main pot: t3710)


Results:
Final pot: t3710

[Acein8ter]

Your shortstacked, so either way w/QJo is OK IMO. If you did call, you would have t1250 left which is not bad. You missed the flop and would probably fold to a post flop bet. (If you played it conservatively)

QJo is not a powerhouse hand, but it pretty good 3 handed. A case can be made either way, push/call.

With the Button with only t1145 left, you may have wanted him to go out 3rd so you can at least play for 2nd.

[ChrisV]

Easy fold, you don't have enough to make SB fold if you reraise and stacking off with QJ here is a really bad plan. It goes negative even against any two cards from SB. Calling and folding a flop where you don't make a pair is slightly better but still not as good as folding. The key to this hand is to realise that it's extremely difficult for you to come first. You should concentrate your energies on coming second. If both you and the other shortstack just fold hands, you'll eventually come second, so you need to force him to make the first allin.

[Im_new]

Thanks, I agree with you, Christy. I think I was tired of him raising into me, so i pushed with an okay hand three handed.

What hands should I push with though? premiums only?

[Ray Zee]

if he would do this with a random hand you are just under a 3 to 2 favorite. that and that you will be in the little blind against the short stack having bb and position makes me want to go with the hand here. unless its different than it seems.

[ChrisV]

Making the assumption that he calls with everything, even if you think he's raising you with any two cards you should only push with 77+,AQo+,ATs+. You can widen that a little bit if you think there's a chance he might fold preflop. If you think he's raising with say top 1/3, then only TT+ and AK are pushes. The difficulty of coming first really weighs heavy on you here, the chips you gain if you win an allin are not really that valuable.

[ChrisV]

[ QUOTE ]
if he would do this with a random hand you are just under a 3 to 2 favorite. that and that you will be in the little blind against the short stack having bb and position makes me want to go with the hand here. unless its different than it seems.

[/ QUOTE ]

A 3 to 2 favourite (meaning 60%) is not enough to risk elimination in this spot. Your ICM equity is .2848 if you fold, .3339 if you stack off and win and .2000 if you stack off and lose. (ICM Equity Calculator). So to break even:

(.3339)P[win] + (.2000)(1 - P[win]) = .2848

(.1339)P[win] = .0848

P[win] = .6333

So you need to be a 63.33% favorite to even break even. QJo is 58.14% versus a random hand. Stacking off with this hand in a $100 SNG would cost you around $7.

The other short stack having position next hand is irrelevant as position doesn't matter much when it's an allin or fold situation. Of more importance is the fact that he has to actually post the blinds next. Moreover, the big stack is a large favorite to move in again, so there will be no need for us to risk our chips.

[metsandfinsfan]

man i wish i understood icm better

reading this post makes me want to study it

thx chris

[ChrisV]

[ QUOTE ]
man i wish i understood icm better

[/ QUOTE ]

ICM's not hard, it's just a number that tells you what fraction of the prize pool your stack is worth. You don't need to understand how it works. The only tricky part is estimating your equities in real hands.

btw, this hand is a good demonstration of the fact that maxims like "play for first, settle for third" are bad generalizations. The only rule in SNG play is "Always maximise equity".

[Rek]

[ QUOTE ]
if he would do this with a random hand you are just under a 3 to 2 favorite. that and that you will be in the little blind against the short stack having bb and position makes me want to go with the hand here. unless its different than it seems.

[/ QUOTE ]

With the chip stacks as described, this theory is only valid if you were the first to act - I don't mind a push then.

I agree with ChrisV this is a fold (possibly a call).

Reraise all-in was the worst. The SB really is committed here and should be calling your reraise regardless. In fact with the stack sizes his original raise screams "good hand". If it was more marginal and he was going to play I think he goes all-in hoping you fold.