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#1
09-09-2007, 05:50 PM
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Pure steal over open limps with 10 BBs - Donkish?
Hero is BB with 9.5K
3rd Pos.-45K 4th Pos.-10K SB-40K Blinds are 500/1000. My image is extremely TAG, though I have been card-dead for some time. I have not shown down a hand in over an hour; it was the nut straight. $10 live rebuy tourney, 19 entrants left of 41, so there are still quite a few loose-passives in the field. 3rd position with 45 K just doubled up last hand and has been limping almost constantly. He has raised all his good hands; his play has been extremely straightforward thus far. 4th position is playing standard weak passive, either limping preflop or shoving all-in (with nuts). He has also called the blinds the last two times that 3rd position has. SB has shown some very strange hands and caught miracles lately, but is weak passive preflop. Action: 2 folds, 3rd pos. calls, 4th pos. calls, 2 folds, SB completes, Hero looks down at J4o. Can I justify a shove here given my information? I know my holding falls distinctly under the 'any two cards' category, but I estimated I'd pick it up uncontested a large percentage of the time, and the chance to add 35% to my stack was quite sweet. Then again I could be off completely. Thoughts? 
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#2
09-09-2007, 07:04 PM
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Re: Pure steal over open limps with 10 BBs - Donkish?
it sounds like they might limp call with Kx as you describe their play. Have you actually seen them limp and call big raises? Some live donkamenters (especially older folks) are pretty flustered by the 10bb push and will call 3-4xbb with junk but fold to your shove. If you think this may be the case shove, if you think they could call with KJ or weaker fold.
Edit: I can't back this up with math but I did win a tournament once... [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]
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#3
09-09-2007, 11:39 PM
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Re: Pure steal over open limps with 10 BBs - Donkish?
I like the move, but I'd prefer cards with some show down value....suited connectors, even one-gappers, or a couple of overs. At least that way I have live cards against somebody's 55.
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#4
09-10-2007, 02:17 AM
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Re: Pure steal over open limps with 10 BBs - Donkish?
[ QUOTE ]
Hero is BB with 9.5K 3rd Pos.-45K 4th Pos.-10K SB-40K Blinds are 500/1000. My image is extremely TAG, though I have been card-dead for some time. I have not shown down a hand in over an hour; it was the nut straight. $10 live rebuy tourney, 19 entrants left of 41, so there are still quite a few loose-passives in the field. 3rd position with 45 K just doubled up last hand and has been limping almost constantly. He has raised all his good hands; his play has been extremely straightforward thus far. 4th position is playing standard weak passive, either limping preflop or shoving all-in (with nuts). He has also called the blinds the last two times that 3rd position has. SB has shown some very strange hands and caught miracles lately, but is weak passive preflop. Action: 2 folds, 3rd pos. calls, 4th pos. calls, 2 folds, SB completes, Hero looks down at J4o. Can I justify a shove here given my information? I know my holding falls distinctly under the 'any two cards' category, but I estimated I'd pick it up uncontested a large percentage of the time, and the chance to add 35% to my stack was quite sweet. Then again I could be off completely. Thoughts? [/ QUOTE ] Although I fully understand the rational/benefits from shoving and taking down the pot, i'm folding this and waiting for a better opp. 1st limper has a big stack and will be getting about 3 to 2 to call your shove. 2nd limper is loose/bad but he doesn't matter, since u will be getting the right price against his range if big stack folds. I like shoving a pretty wide range here....but not J4o. I'm usually one of the few that advocates folding in these types (late/limped pot/trash hand/8-10BBs in SB/BB) of posts FWIW.
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#6
09-10-2007, 03:08 AM
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Re: Pure steal over open limps with 10 BBs - Donkish?
Action: first limper quickly folded, 2nd limper grumbled, waited the requisite 15 seconds to simulate thought, and folded, SB tanks for two minutes, and...
and... reluctantly calls with TT! Just a picture of how tight my image was/how wp these players were. I mean, seriously.
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#7
09-10-2007, 07:04 AM
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Re: Pure steal over open limps with 10 BBs - Donkish?
This might work live. However, you really need a little more chips to steal at limpers. Also, I would rather have atleast an ace or a suited gapper or something, maybe even J8o. You have a way below average hand.
Even if you were card dead, the play is probably tight enough that you could have stole the blinds or made a resteal or squeeze play. There should have been better opportunities than this.
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#8
09-10-2007, 08:26 AM
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Re: Pure steal over open limps with 10 BBs - Donkish?
[ QUOTE ]
I also prefer not to shove, sometimes I will on the flop though if I like the texture. [/ QUOTE ] You're going to open shove the flop as a bluff when 4 handed? I think it's comes down the quesiotn... are they more passive than they are loose? That said I likely don't shove here.... but wait to first in shove.
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#9
09-10-2007, 11:13 AM
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Re: Pure steal over open limps with 10 BBs - Donkish?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] I also prefer not to shove, sometimes I will on the flop though if I like the texture. [/ QUOTE ] You're going to open shove the flop as a bluff when 4 handed? [/ QUOTE ]Sure, if I feel good about it. maybe hit the 6 or a gutshot. The BB should be getting good respect on a raggy flop in a limped pot...
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#10
09-10-2007, 03:08 PM
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Re: Pure steal over open limps with 10 BBs - Donkish?
[ QUOTE ]
SB tanks for two minutes, and...and...reluctantly calls with TT! [/ QUOTE ] Good push then, you being there had the best idea how the table was playing & this shows they were indeed folding a lot of the time to this shove.
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