50NL - overpair in a reraised pot

[canavarr]

I want to start a discussion on playing medium pocket pairs (like 88-JJ) in a re-raised pot when you play for set value and flop comes all undercards. When villain re-raises my medium pocket pair pre-flop, I almost always play for set value (as I do with small pocket pairs), or try to check the hand down, or see cheap showdown. But very rarely do villains check the hand down, they very often 2-barrel with AK,AQ unimproved. So I think I might be folding the best hand quite often here against 2-barreling AK, AQ, which may or may not be a huge leak as maybe I'm actually making a good laydown and do not payoff, QQ-AA. So please take a look at this hand and comment on what should I do here? How do we change the way we play when villain is in position/out of position, is tight/loose.

Here villain is 39/12/2.0 (33 hands)

Full Tilt Poker
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $0.25/$0.50
6 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
Hero: $48.25
UTG+1: $29.85
CO: $79.20
Button: $50.25
SB: $62.50
BB: $40.70

Pre-flop: (6 players) Hero is UTG with T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
<font color="#cc0000">Hero raises to $2</font>, 4 folds, <font color="#cc0000">BB raises to $5</font>, Hero calls.

Flop: 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] ($10.25, 2 players)
<font color="#cc0000">BB bets $6.5</font>, Hero calls.

Turn: 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] ($23.25, 2 players)
<font color="#cc0000">BB bets $14</font>, Hero folds.
Uncalled bets: $14 returned to BB.

Results:
Final pot: $23.25

[canavarr]

[bump] anyone?

[doppelganger]

Well, I think a big part of the equation is how big is villain's PF 3betting range. Is AK the only non-pair hand?

For those guys, you know that in a range of JJ+,AK, that the AK combos represent 16 out of 40 total combinations, which means he's more likely to have an overpair than a hand you beat.

If you add AQ and any other "3-betting light" kinds of hands, it swings everything in the other direction and makes overpairs less likely than hands you're ahead of.

Not sure that solves anything, but it might be a good place to start the discussion.

[DonkeyOnTilt]

It all depends on what he 3-bets with but the turn bet by villian is weak. Tough spot.

[MusashiStyle]

this is how i usually play it. generally speaking, his turn bet thins his range down to mostly hands that beat u whereas on the flop calling or raising is good because you really have no idea whether ak or aq is in his range or worse or not.
it's pretty uncommon for players to bluff this turn (though it happens) so i fold too.

[onesandzeros]

Pre flop I like your raise and flat call. Why not raise the flop instead of smooth calling. This board is not bad for TT HU. By smooth calling you are saying he's either bluffing, or your set drawing because you think right now you may be beat by an over pair? If you were going for a set you didn't have odds. By folding you said he wast bluffing or semi bluffing. You lost the hand by flat calling instead of raising. When he fires the turn you now have a tougher decision to make because you have no new information. He knows this and your flat call looks like a draw to him probably which is what it was because you thought you needed to improve. Had you re raised his flop bet which was weak, you would have gained information about his hand.

A re raise to $15 on that flop would have been good. If he re raises or shoves then you can get away if you have a solid read of strength, if he bets again you have options and if he checks you can see the river for free or value bet that useless 4 that came off. You want to gain control and put pressure on him I think.

I think the flat call on the flop and fold on the turn was weak unless you think he's on a pure bluff on the flop, but if you did the 4 wouldn't be scary to make you fold....

[JROK777]

I like your play.

[canavarr]

if we raise this flop and villain flat calls, what's our plan on the turn, river? do we put any more money to this pot?

[TheArtfulDodger]

I'm going with what "onesandzeros" said. Find out on flop if you have best hand.

[carnivalhobo]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm going with what "onesandzeros" said. Find out on flop if you have best hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

foling preflop is 100x better than raise/folding this flop