$235 6 Man: TPTK Facing Turn Min Raise

JSH06 · #1 09-05-2007, 02:01 AM

65/35 payouts

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t20 (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Button (t1500)
Hero (t1500)
BB (t1500)
UTG (t1500)
MP (t1500)
CO (t1500)

Preflop: Hero is SB with A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
1 fold, MP raises to t80, 2 folds, Hero calls t70, 1 fold.

Flop: (t180) 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets t100, MP calls t100.

Turn: (t380) 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets t300, MP raises to t600, Hero?

I really hate this turn min raise as it's so often a monster.

DDBeast · #2 09-05-2007, 02:10 AM

I always raise pf. You can expect him to c-bet here a lot too, so I like a check raise on the flop. You're only ahead of a donkily played AQ/AJ, or chopping. Tough spot, reads would be nice. If this is the first hand you've ever played withi this guy, I don't think I could fold.

suzzer99 · #3 09-05-2007, 02:22 AM

What are you going to do, fold readless?

JSH06 · #4 09-05-2007, 02:23 AM

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I always raise pf. You can expect him to c-bet here a lot too, so I like a check raise on the flop. You're only ahead of a donkily played AQ/AJ, or chopping. Tough spot, reads would be nice. If this is the first hand you've ever played withi this guy, I don't think I could fold.

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Yeah more often than not I rr pf w/ AK in a 6 man, but I usually just call if I'm OOP against an early position raise. I just hate playing AK OOP in a big pot early. Also, my hand is disguised and I might just win a big pot if I hit. I think calling & re-raising are both reasonable.

I expect him to c-bet a lot here but he really wouldn't expect to me to lead with an ace because of that. A lot of these 6 man players are so aggro that they'll just raise a flop lead here with any 2 because they're thinking just that. I think the only hands that are folding to a lead here that might c-bet are hands like KQ, KJs, or smaller pocket pairs, which all may raise my flop lead and I wasn't going to win much off of them anyway. That's why I sometimes lead this. Any thoughts?

I don't have any reads because I'm an idiot and don't post hands until weeks after I actually played them. I don't recognize his screen name.

Would you just cold call then and check/call any river against an unknown?

JSH06 · #5 09-05-2007, 02:25 AM

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What are you going to do, fold readless?

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I think it's reasonable. I mean, what hand range would you put an unknown $235 player on after that turn?

Slim Pickens · #6 09-05-2007, 02:49 AM

I hate minraisers so much. Also, I have no idea wtf he has or what he thinks he's representing. My experience is that people turn over all sorts of stupid hands when I get to showdown after they minraise the turn. They sometimes have things like KK or A7, which I just can't understand. Maybe they think the turn raise is a "testing raise" to "see where they're at," or some other equally-dumb logic.

I don't really like firing on both the flop and turn if you're not going to go broke with that hand. If he's the kind of player who will stack off with AQ or KK there, then that's a fine way to play it. Otherwise I prefer bet/check/bet or check/bet/check, or check/check/bet against a real bluffoon.

As played, pushing sucks because you never get called by a worse hand and you get called by every better hand. A real tard might bluff the river if you call and check the river, so I'd tend towards doing it that way if you're going to continue with the hand.

Slim Pickens · #7 09-05-2007, 02:53 AM

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I expect him to c-bet a lot here but he really wouldn't expect to me to lead with an ace because of that. A lot of these 6 man players are so aggro that they'll just raise a flop lead here with any 2 because they're thinking just that. I think the only hands that are folding to a lead here that might c-bet are hands like KQ, KJs, or smaller pocket pairs, which all may raise my flop lead and I wasn't going to win much off of them anyway. That's why I sometimes lead this. Any thoughts?

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I really like leading at this flop for the reasons stated, but since you're trying to make it look like a stupid bluff, a turn check makes more sense.

Most of the time I just call preflop, only reraising against known players who have pretty wide opening ranges. It would also be nice if I thought they were capable of shoving a few hands worse than AK so I can call a shove.

JSH06 · #8 09-05-2007, 02:55 AM

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I hate minraisers so much. Also, I have no idea wtf he has or what he thinks he's representing. My experience is that people turn over all sorts of stupid hands when I get to showdown after they minraise the turn. They sometimes have things like KK or A7, which I just can't understand. Maybe they think the turn raise is a "testing raise" to "see where they're at," or some other equally-dumb logic.

I don't really like firing on both the flop and turn if you're not going to go broke with that hand. If he's the kind of player who will stack off with AQ or KK there, then that's a fine way to play it. Otherwise I prefer bet/check/bet or check/bet/check, or check/check/bet against a real bluffoon.

As played, pushing sucks because you never get called by a worse hand and you get called by every better hand. A real tard might bluff the river if you call and check the river, so I'd tend towards doing it that way if you're going to continue with the hand.

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I hate min raisers as much as you.

I think almost any unknown is stacking off with AQ here. I do agree though that I should have went bet/check/bet if I was gonna lead the flop. It looks like I stabbed at the flop & then gave up. It might get more value out of a hand like JJ, QQ, or KK, and a hand like AJ or AQ will often bet the turn for me anyway.

"A real tard might bluff the river if you call and check the river"

Lol. Sad but true

JSH06 · #9 09-05-2007, 02:57 AM

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I expect him to c-bet a lot here but he really wouldn't expect to me to lead with an ace because of that. A lot of these 6 man players are so aggro that they'll just raise a flop lead here with any 2 because they're thinking just that. I think the only hands that are folding to a lead here that might c-bet are hands like KQ, KJs, or smaller pocket pairs, which all may raise my flop lead and I wasn't going to win much off of them anyway. That's why I sometimes lead this. Any thoughts?

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I really like leading at this flop for the reasons stated, but since you're trying to make it look like a stupid bluff, a turn check makes more sense.

Most of the time I just call preflop, only reraising against known players who have pretty wide opening ranges. It would also be nice if I thought they were capable of shoving a few hands worse than AK so I can call a shove.

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Yeah I would normally check the turn after doing the weird flop lead but for some reason I donked it up this time.

suzzer99 · #10 09-05-2007, 06:16 AM

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What are you going to do, fold readless?

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I think it's reasonable. I mean, what hand range would you put an unknown $235 player on after that turn?

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AA/TT is pretty much the only reasonable hand a decent player could have. Any other hand shouldn't have raised preflop, or should have raised on the flop. Now if he has anything else, then he sucks. And lets not go putting sucky people on monsters and only monsters.

If I had a read this guy always and only minraises monsters, I could think about a fold. But with an unknown I'd look at it like any other raise. I think at this level you may lose horrible players who overvalue weak aces, but you gain people who like to be tricky and minraise in weird spots.