Early hand from 22+1RA

mlagoo · #1 09-02-2007, 02:33 PM

No reads.

Against an unknown, is this river a value bet? If so, should I make the value bet smaller? The problem is, I feel like he's check/calling a fair few hands that beat me (better two pair being the most likely). Is he beaten/calling enough to make this VB profitable?

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t20 (9 handed) internettexasholdem.com

SB (t3300)
BB (t1350)
UTG (t5840)
Hero (t2940)
MP1 (t2780)
MP2 (t3370)
MP3 (t3030)
CO (t1410)
Button (t2950)

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
1 fold, Hero raises to t70, 5 folds, SB calls t60, BB calls t50.

Flop: (t210) 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB checks, BB checks, Hero bets t150, SB calls t150, BB calls t150.

Turn: (t660) A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB checks, BB checks, Hero checks.

River: (t660) J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB checks, BB checks, Hero bets t440.

erc007 · #2 09-02-2007, 03:00 PM

[ QUOTE ]
No reads.

Against an unknown, is this river a value bet? If so, should I make the value bet smaller? The problem is, I feel like he's check/calling a fair few hands that beat me (better two pair being the most likely). Is he beaten/calling enough to make this VB profitable?

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t20 (9 handed) internettexasholdem.com

SB (t3300)
BB (t1350)
UTG (t5840)
Hero (t2940)
MP1 (t2780)
MP2 (t3370)
MP3 (t3030)
CO (t1410)
Button (t2950)

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
1 fold, Hero raises to t70, 5 folds, SB calls t60, BB calls t50.

Flop: (t210) 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB checks, BB checks, Hero bets t150, SB calls t150, BB calls t150.

Turn: (t660) A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB checks, BB checks, Hero checks.

River: (t660) J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB checks, BB checks, Hero bets t440.

[/ QUOTE ]

This would be a pretty weird line for villain to take w AT/AJ. I would expect a turn bet here everytime w AT, if not a lead/cr on the flop. He loses a lot of value if he checks river with a flush here too b/c u haven't reppped anything more than a pair of 10's. After the flop and turn action, it's hard to include many Ax hands in his range. 88 and 99 are possible and might call here enough to justify your valuebet, IMO. I also like your river bet size. Making thin river value bets is something that i try to consider now, since in the past i have always been inclined to check behind. The ability to make these thin valuebets seems to be one of the edges that really good players have.

kurtkatt · #3 09-02-2007, 07:59 PM

what are u trying to get value from, or are u trying to bluff AT?? i dont get this.

Stumpy · #4 09-03-2007, 12:31 AM

Obviously no better hand is folding.
So it's really just a question if more hands you beat call than are beating you.

Better two pair actually seems pretty small.
If ATo+,A2s+ called, that's only:
8 AT, Ad3d, Ah7h, Ad7d.
AT is kind of likely to raise flop or bet turn, and AJ seems unlikely to make the turn.
So maybe 8 hands?

I think the 89 straight could check/call as well.

I don't see that many hands you beat calling. If you bet 220, maybe you get enough curious calls.

DerrtySlime · #5 09-03-2007, 02:41 AM

too thin. i like what Stumpy said.

el_dusto · #6 09-03-2007, 02:51 AM

i think you almost always get called or raised when you're behind and almost never when you're ahead... i'd check behind.

mlagoo · #7 09-03-2007, 03:36 AM

yeah i talked it over with a few people and check behind is the pretty overwhelming consensus.

he check/called with 98, so good call whoever put that in his range.