dreams vs NDEs

[im a model]

i like the idea of NDEs (near death experiences) being a preview of the afterlife because they are good and people enjoy them. im just not sure how seriously i can entertain the possibility that the experiences people report while they have zero brain function are actually indicative of afterlife. i mean objectively, if you were trying to figure out what happens after you are dead, the way you would go about doing it is exactly this way--killing someone, reviving them, asking them what happened. so when i think about it objectively, it seems at least reasonable, so i guess the experiences genrally reported in NDEs are the front-runner in my mind for what happens.

but do you guys have good knowledge that discredits them? i was watching an episode of that showtime show with penn and teller that debunks stuff and is something of an expose (although it seems more like devils-advocate-type rhetoric with very superficial and biased research, so i dont take the show very seriously), and they were saying how NDEs were basically just dreams--last-minute brain function. 5-minute youtube clip of their argument they also said people in centrifuge tests who lose consciousness have similar experiences, and this, thus, discredits NDEs. to me it seems like comparing NDEs to dreams is apples-to-oranges since dreams occur when brain function is at its highest and NDEs happen (at least as i understand them) when there is no brain activity at all. and as for people blacked-out in a centrifuge having them, i dont know enough about this process, but if in the centrifuge, the brain is without blood and shows no brain activity and they are experiencing visions and sensations and remembering them, that seems remarkable and maybe bolsters the argument for NDEs being visions of post-death. (i would assume that were you to stay at 9Gs in a centrifuge for a few minutes, you would be dead, so it is something of a near-death experience.)

so i know i probably come off as a spiritual idiot in this post, but obviously i want to believe in this thing that suggests that dying is tight as opposed to bad or neutral.

do you guys have evidence or reasoning that should make me conclude that these NDEs are bogus and in no way indicative of what its like to be dead?

[bunny]

[ QUOTE ]
do you guys have evidence or reasoning that should make me conclude that these NDEs are bogus and in no way indicative of what its like to be dead?

[/ QUOTE ]
I dont think it's right to conclude that NDE's are what you experience when there's no brain activity. I think it's what you experience either just before no brain activity or just after your brain gets kick started again.

Physically, it seems we cant think without a brain. So if there's no brain (because you've died and it's decomposed) you probably cant think anymore.

Seems most likely imo.

[HedonismBot]

Look up joe rogan dmt on youtube

[carlo]

There are probably a lot of perspectives of near death experiences, mainly because there is no cartesian origin in which to come to grips with the same.There is obviously a lot of sensationalism as it is anecdotal in nature.

When a person has a near death experience one experiences pictures of his life in reverse order. Quite often the person says"my life flashed before my eyes". Examples of when this might happen would be a person near drowning, sudden shock, or shooting. Any crisis which might be associated with dying could precipitate this type of episode. This in no way mandates that the episode will happen for if it does happen people will have to remember the episode or in fact mostly it does not happen.

Its relationship to death is that when a person dies, his life does flash before his eyes pictorially over a period of approximately 2-3 days. To the external observer the man is dead but this is one of the first experiences of the soul at death. Other events happen as the soul travels through the heavens after death but basically the soul perceives his past life in pictures in the first stage of birth into the spirit.

It appears that within a near death experience that 2-3 day period is condensed.

[mts]

and from there comes the following

http://www.rickstrassman.com/pages/dmt/

[luckyme]

[ QUOTE ]
and from there comes the following

http://www.rickstrassman.com/pages/dmt/

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
Opponents and supporters of abortion rights may find fault with my proposal that pineal DMT release at 49 days after conception marks the entrance of the spirit into the fetus.

[/ QUOTE ]

Damn. All along I've been acting on the assumption it was the 42th day the spirit enters and then releases the DMT on the 7th day, while it rested.

Are there no clips? We're in the 21th century ( aren't we..?)

luckyme

[im a model]

yeah. once again any research i do into NDEs has left me feeling like those working in the field and publishing articles are pseudo-scientists or spiritualists who want to believe in an afterlife or someone selling something... or all three.

[Subfallen]

[ QUOTE ]
Damn. All along I've been acting on the assumption it was the 42th day the spirit enters and then releases the DMT on the 7th day, while it rested.

[/ QUOTE ]

Nicely done, sir! Very Dennett-esque of you, if I may say so.

In general, it's revealing that NDE's are reported as weak hallucinations. That is---the person experiencing the NDE feels herself to be essentially a passive observer; not an active agent directing the experience.

Weak hallucinations are well known to be within the machinery of consciousness, so provisionally there's no reason to believe NDE's are qualitatively different from dreams.

[carlo]

[ QUOTE ]
DMT: The Spirit Molecule

In 1990, I began the first new human research with psychedelic, or hallucinogenic, drugs in the United States in over 20 years. These studies investigated the effects of N,N-dimethyltryptamine, or DMT, an extremely short-acting and powerful psychedelic. During the project's five years, I administered approximately 400 doses of DMT to 60 human volunteers. This research took place at the University of New Mexico's School of Medicine in Albuquerque, where I was tenured Associate Professor of Psychiatry.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is the inexorable miasma of abstract materialism. Abstract intellect, backed by specious reasoning and privilege, administers intravenous chemicals to trusting students. He then documents the "results" which can at best be a shallow picture of the experiences.

This is a physician seeing his subjects as "lumps of clay" with no respect for their physical/soul/spiritual natures. He probably belongs to the school of "psychology without a soul".

I know that medical schools in the past(still?) would administer intravenous medications to sedated dogs in order to show their students the effects of certain chemical medications. A few students refused to perform the experiments which proved nothing and offered nothing. Of course, the dogs were "sacrificed" at the end of the session which lasted over a week(s).