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#1
08-26-2007, 03:32 PM
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20-40 they all laughed at me... for an hour...
the game was 8 handed. UTG (old white dude) raises, I (obnoxious 20-something white kid) have AKo (no heart) and make it three next in, folded to the BB (solidish asian dude) who calls.
flop 987 all hearts check, check, and i elected not to continuation bet for the first time ever at the table. i have an over-aggro internet kid image, though i am not sure anyone adjusts to it or not. actually i am fairly new to the table, but i lost 500$ (one rack) in about the first 15 minutes of play, and i have played with the asian dude previously and he definitely thinks i am maniacal. turn A diamonds Asian bets, white dude raises, I elect to??? in addition to weighing in on the correct play, i am curious as to how bad the alternatives are in the minds of 2+2ers. 
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#3
08-26-2007, 04:12 PM
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Re: 20-40 they all laughed at me... for an hour...
seems like a clear fold to me. its just not a good place to put your money IMO. ... i guess 3-betting is better than calling if you really wanna see where you're at, but it just seems like a ridiculously large investment given the size of the pot, the board, and the action in front of you...
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#4
08-26-2007, 04:14 PM
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Re: 20-40 they all laughed at me... for an hour...
[ QUOTE ]
Against most old white dudes, this is a fold. [/ QUOTE ] he's no rock. maybe i should have expressed that. he is like other old white dudes in the sense that he is not a critical thinker and isn't a student of the game.
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#5
08-26-2007, 04:23 PM
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Re: 20-40 they all laughed at me... for an hour...
Just fold. Also checking this flop is really standard.
Nobody's folding anyhting. Ever.
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#6
08-26-2007, 04:28 PM
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Re: 20-40 they all laughed at me... for an hour...
[ QUOTE ]
seems like a clear fold to me. its just not a good place to put your money IMO. ... [/ QUOTE ] i agree with this statement generally, though the fold wasn't so clear to me at the time, (i made my decision in about 3 seconds or so). [ QUOTE ] i guess 3-betting is better than calling if you really wanna see where you're at, but it just seems like a ridiculously large investment given the size of the pot, the board, and the action in front of you... [/ QUOTE ] this is i generally disagree with. three betting here has not to do with seeing where you are at or even three betting for value. the point is that you are going to have to call one more bet on the river anyway and by three betting for a free showdown you are way more likely to be getting in money when you are ahead. basically, if you are ahead, you are up against big draws, and they won't call river bets in the event that you win the hand, so you better charge them now. and if you are going to call a river bet anyway you better put in the 3 bets now. the reason you can do this is because if another bet gets put in the pot, you can fold very easily with a clear conscience regardless of the pot size. i think a lot of people think the initial turn bet conveys more information than it actually does, the flop got checked through after a three bet. taking a stab on the turn does not signify the nuts. furthermore, a raise of that bet signifies a big ace with a heart, or two pair (in which case 3 betting is still correct) in addition to the flush/straights and sets people seem to be so inclined to put the white guy on. fwiw, i did a back of the envelope calcuation and i am coming up with the turn 3 bet having an EV of ~105-110$ which makes is a very bad decision in an absolute sense (few decisions in limit lose a whole small bet). still its a lot closer than a lot of people would think (imo).
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#7
08-26-2007, 04:32 PM
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Re: 20-40 they all laughed at me... for an hour...
does utg's raise necessarily have to be 2pair or better? for example, if i played this hand at a typical 1/2 game at bay101 i would rather 3bet than fold.
in this instance though even if you are ahead your equity is never really that good against both their hands and you have to dodge any heart and any straight completing cards not to mention that you are not closing the action. i don't think it is an *easy* fold as others have mentioned but i'd probably fold.
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#8
08-26-2007, 05:16 PM
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Re: 20-40 they all laughed at me... for an hour...
Fold... fight another day... why put in three bets... then have to fold to 1 additional bet if the "rock" type asian BB caps it.
You know if the asian guy caps it... you're drawing dead without a heart in your hand. I wouldn't never 3 bet if there is a chance I would HAVE to fold to a 4th bet. If you want to call down... I guess that makes more sense... I still fold.
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