Early level tightness - often play no hands?

[maca9]

Hi All

I have been reading AleoMagus’s STT strategy guide and want to ask a question.

Becasue of how tight it suggests you play in early levels I have played many STT and not even played a hand until I'm in the 10BB or less region and then its shoving territory.

It seems that from how tight it suggests to play this could happen quite often?

So when playing optimal strategy is it not unusual to not be playing at all till you are shoving?

[sixfour]

It's certainly not unusual to play through an stt and not do anything other than push or fold...

[nortonmalc]

While your M is very high, just play it like a normal cash game, not really any tighter than that though. If you're card dead, there is no need to force the action until your M gets low.

[luthar]

[ QUOTE ]
While your M is very high, just play it like a normal cash game , not really any tighter than that though. If you're card dead, there is no need to force the action until your M gets low.

[/ QUOTE ]

Euh...so we now have M's in STT? and we play it like a cash game? I don't like these advices!

OP: Honestly, it depends on the buyin. I have no clue what the strategy says but basicly, limp PP <= TT to hit set, raise JJ+, play AK/AQ in late position/Button.

So yes it's normal to have to play push/fold in a turbo without playing a hand. In a standard, it really means your either card dead or way too tight.

Technically your edge is in pushing/folding

[nortonmalc]

Why do you think M is not applicable to STTs? Also at the beginning of a PS non-turbo, you start with an M of 50. At that level, I'm typically using the same range of starting hands as I do for a cash game. Are you pushing or folding with an M of 50?

[chuckpalms04]

we use bb's in sttf just because it's more easily applied and the advice generally turns out to be the same. also, my early strat is tighter than i would play in a cash game - i'm limping less sc's and marginal hands because i can't rebuy at anytime if i play a draw aggressively. also i'm opening the pot with stronger hands than i would in a cash game, and passing on opportunities i would take in a cash game that aren't good decisions in an STT. that advice about Ms and cash games is bad.

[nortonmalc]

Are you saying you are more likely to make -EV plays in a cash game than a tourney? If that is the case then I think you are correct, do not play the early stages of a STT like that.

[ymu]

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Are you saying you are more likely to make -EV plays in a cash game than a tourney? If that is the case then I think you are correct, do not play the early stages of a STT like that.

[/ QUOTE ]
No - he's saying +cEV in a cash game may be -$EV in an STT. That is pretty basic.

Your advice is horrible - you shouldn't play STTs like a cash game early - MTTs yes, STTs no. They're totally different. If you're still thinking in Ms on the STT forum, you haven't adjusted to STTs yet.

M is the number of orbits you have before being blinded out. BBs is the FE you have for a push. They're different, even if you could use M as effectively as BBs in an STT there's no point because BBs are simpler, and it's a bad habit because M is a concept introduced for MTTs and you need to avoid mixing up advice for two completely different formats.

STTs, play uber-tight preflop and a tad weak-tight post-flop early on when the blinds are low and you gain significant equity from letting other people donk out early (by, um, playing like it's a cash game). When you're short compared to the blinds (10BBish), push like a maniac but be tight calling AI.


E2A: Maca, it's totally normal to get a game where your first non-fold move is a push. If you get a good chance to make some chips early take it, but avoid losing chips unnecessarily. You will need the ammunition to survive when the blinds get high - there's no point wasting it on speculative hands or expensive draws early on.

[BradleyT]

[ QUOTE ]
Are you saying you are more likely to make -EV plays in a cash game than a tourney? If that is the case then I think you are correct, do not play the early stages of a STT like that.

[/ QUOTE ]

Do an ICM calculation on what happens when you double up the first hand - your equity increases by about 82.5% not 100% like it would in a cash game. The other 17.5% gets distributed to the other 7 players. Of course a big stack may give you additional equity not quantified by ICM but that's somewhat difficult to calculate and would greatly vary from player to player.

Anyway it should be easy to "see" this because winning all the chips at the table only gives you half of the money.

[DevinLake]

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While your M is very high, just play it like a normal cash game, not really any tighter than that though. If you're card dead, there is no need to force the action until your M gets low.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, you should play the first levels of a STT just like a cash game. If, in this cash game you can not reload, you are not deep stacked, the house takes a huge rake of any pot you win, etc.

If this is not the normal cash game you play in, don't play it like a cash game.

In a normal cash game I play around 27/22. In the first levels of a sng I would play something like 10/8.