I should have shipped on the flop right?

[McWager]

Cryptologic
Pot Limit Omaha Ring game
Blinds: $0.50/$1
5 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
UTG: $32.66
CO: $99.50
TltyOTool: $183.50
SB: $127.85
BB: $157.65

Pre-flop: (5 players) TltyOTool is Button with 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
2 folds, <font color="#cc0000">TltyOTool raises to $3.5</font>, SB calls, BB folds.

Flop: 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] ($8, 2 players)
SB checks, <font color="#cc0000">TltyOTool bets $8</font>, <font color="#cc0000">SB raises to $32</font>, TltyOTool calls.

Turn: 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] ($72, 2 players)
<font color="#cc0000">SB bets $72</font>, <font color="#cc0000">TltyOTool raises all-in $148</font>, <font color="#cc0000">SB calls all-in $20.35</font>.
Uncalled bets: $55.65 returned to TltyOTool.

River: 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] ($256.7, 0 player + 2 all-in - Main pot: $256.7)


Results:
Final pot: $256.7
<font color="#ffffff">TltyOTool shows 8s Th Ac Jd</font>
<font color="#ffffff">SB shows Kc 2c Qh 9h</font>

[chucky]

Getting allin on flop is not optimal with bare top two pair. If we reduce likelihood of jjxx and ttxx because you have jt, then big draws are most likely hands to raise your bet. Big draws benefit from getting it allin on the flop, so with a medium strength made hand shoving the flop is bad. Additionally you have position on villian. Calling will give you position so if a club, Q, 9, or K hits on the turn you can dump the hand. Nice shove on the turn.

[McWager]

ya that was basically my thinking - call flop and wait for safe turn to ship. The only reason I was questioning that play was I thought there are so many possible draws, hard to know what has hit him and allows him to bluff me when a scare card comes

[Burdzthewurd]

No, at best call flop and c/f turn without improving, bare two pair sucks with all the draws out there.

Edit: You won't get any wrap/flush draws to fold flop either so another reason to at best call and re-evaluate turn.

[alavet]

i fold turn

[chucky]

Why fold turn? no draw was complete. Hero has 45% equity.

[alavet]

he reps trips

[Aisthesis]

I dunno, I think villain flopped a set here a lot of the time. Other hands I'd put in his range: Overpair with flush draw, some kind of KQ with flush draw.

Also, while your hand reduces the likelihood of set, it also basically eliminates (due to Ac) naked nut flush draw, which would be pretty ballsy to pot on the turn anyway. Also, every club in the deck is live since 2c doesn't help you. So, if he's drawing he has to have at minimum 14 outs, putting him at at least 35% or so on draws.

I'd probably fold the turn unless I viewed villain as over-aggro. I really think he has a set too often. If he has it more than 40% of the time, it should be a fold, and I think he has one more often than that. I guess he might also have a split with you, but more than likely at least with some crappy draw freeroll. I dunno, I'm still pretty tempted to fold.

What did he show?

[RoundTower]

folding t is terrible, play like this or bf flop.

[chucky]

Really, which trips? Hero has jtxx which makes top and middle set unlikely, and how many 33xx hands call a raise while in the SB position.