turn spot with TT vs superLAG and fish

[yourface]

CO is a bad super aggressive LAG. he's like 60/40 pre. he is spewy postflop in general, notably he likes to semibluff any time he picks up a draw no matter what the action has been and what is on the board

BB is loose/passive/bad. 55/12/1 over 400 hands


Limit Holdem Ring game
Limit: $10/$20
5 players
Converter

Pre-flop: (5 players) yourface is Button with T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
UTG folds, <font color="#cc0000">CO raises</font>, <font color="#cc0000">yourface 3-bets</font>, SB folds, BB calls, CO calls.

Flop: 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (9.5SB, 3 players)
BB checks, CO checks, <font color="#cc0000">yourface bets</font>, BB calls, CO calls.

Turn: A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (6.25BB, 3 players)
BB checks, <font color="#cc0000">CO bets</font>

[NinaWilliams]

oh gross. It certainly looks like he hit the A because it didnt make many draws possible other than QT and he probably donks the flop with a flush draw. With BB behind you who could have a J, A, or 8, I fold this.

[Oink]

Pot is too big for me to give up.

Even LAG tards - or perhaps them in particular - recognize the A as a scarecard and does all sorts of weird stuff.

I raise to get it HU and if it doesnt get HU its the last money I put in the pot

[akvsaq]

On this board, I like a turn raise here with your description of CO. This board is fairly draw heavy and BB can easily just have a draw and CO may be full of it. I've seen BS bets like this too many times for me to give up by bad LAGs.

I'm folding to 3B but there are situations that just frustrate me. Because of your description of villain, say the BB drops on the turn and river comes say a Jack. I've seen so much hopeless bluffs, I feel like I have to call the river if he donks. If we were HU on the turn, I would simply call down but in this situation, I would raise to knock off BB.

I'd like to hear your inputs on river play if you did raise the turn and he donks the river, especially if it is a card in "HIS" eyes an obvious scary like a Jack b/c some bad LAG's make such hopeless bluffs.

[Tryptamean]

I really don't like this spot, and I really don't like folding to the players you described. However, I think this turn is a fold. You got called twice on the flop, which does not mean you are necessarily beat, but either one of these guys could be slowplaying an 8, or BB could be playing a J passively.

Now the Ace comes, which is also certainly in both players ranges. A bad LAG donks you, which could mean many things, but BB is still left to act. All in all, I think it is just too much of a parlay that you have both of these players beat, so fold now and get out relatively cheap.

[frenchpignouf]

The pot is 7 BB, so if we raise we try to win 8 BB for a cost of 2BB. We need at least 20% of equity to raise. Hand 0 is CO.

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 37.595% 35.07% 02.53% 1569527 113057.00 { TT-44, AQs-A2s, K2s+, Q4s+, J7s+, T7s+, 97s+, 87s, AQo-A3o, K7o+, Q8o+, J8o+, T9o }
Hand 1: 43.495% 40.96% 02.53% 1833283 113331.50 { 22+, A4s+, K7s+, Kc6c, Kc5c, Kc4c, Kc3c, Kc2c, Q7s+, J7s+, T7s+, 97s+, 87s, A3o+, K7o+, Q8o+, J8o+, T8o+ }
Hand 2: 18.910% 18.80% 00.11% 841488 4833.50 { TcTs }

Before the donk we have about 20% of equity. The donk is not a sign of weakness, but he cr the flop with a strong hand like a pair J. So the donk don't change too much our equity and i think we have a little less than 20%. The problem is he or the BB can 3bet the turn and we can't hit a ten or he can donk the river and we have a problem. With 2 BB more on the turn, raise is probably the good play but with just 7BB in the pot it looks too close.

[frenchpignouf]

I think too raise&gt;call.

[TheDudeChad]

Wow my first thought was to fold this without second thought even against these two idiots. If either of them has any piece you are way behind.

But after looking at the responses, I realize why my WTSD is so low...raise turn and try to check behind river makes sense.

[Tryptamean]

Those ranges are way too wide. Even these guys ont continue with their whole range. Also, the LAG is not going to donk this ace with his whole range. THere is no way we have 20% equity.

[frenchpignouf]

It's hard to give a range. I suppose CO raise with 50% of his hand and cap with AsK, JJ+. He is 60/40 so with this flop with 10 sb in the pot he can peel (or cr) almost 100% of the time.

For the BB i don't know, he's 55 so he can fold a hand in this range pf or on the flop but i'm quite sur he can sometimes have a very bad hand which is not in this range.

But I think it's not very important because if we change the ranges the equity don't change too much maybe 17% or something like that (there is more J and 8 in a wide range).

The main thing is to measure the information no cr on the flop and CO don't try a cr on the turn and the information
CO donk. I think CO donk quite often and the first inforamtion is quite good, so our equity is about 15% IMHO and a fold is better, but it's close.