Venetian Sunday $340 - Interesting River decision

[Beachman42]

From a few weeks ago. The Sunday noon MTT at the V is a single $340 buy-in for T6,000, 40 minute levels starting at 25/50 so it starts as a decent deep stack tourney.

Hero has been playing his cards at a nitty table where several old farts will call any raise with any ace. Post flop aggro on a non-A board has gotten me to ~10,000 chips.

New player (middle aged, but no real read) to the table starts with ~T8,000 when this hand happens:

Blinds = 200/100/25 ante

4 limpers (including villian in MP) Hero finds red Queens in the BB and raises to 1,000 straight (this was my first raise from the BB with so many in the hand). All folds except villian. Pot = 3,125.

Flop - K [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 4 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 8 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] Hero checks ( I didn't put him on AK or QQ+ since he limped behind 2 other limpers. I wanted to see how much he liked his hand) Villian checks.

Turn - A [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. Hero bets T4,000. I repp'd a big A hoping to induce a fold. If villian pushes, I'm done with the hand.

Villian flat calls !?! leaving T2,500 - 3,000 behind. WTF?

River - 7 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. Hero???

[uclabruinz]

I don't understand your flop check, and I don't understand why you're overbetting the pot on the turn.

[ThePershore]

[ QUOTE ]
I didn't put him on AK or QQ+

[/ QUOTE ]

So bet the flop then...

[Beachman42]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't understand your flop check, and I don't understand why you're overbetting the pot on the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

[Sarcasm injector off]

By "don't understand" do you mean disagree with the reason I gave or are you asking me to elaborate? Both reasons I gave were what I was thinking at the time which is after sitting at that table for 2+ hours.

For what its worth, once it was over I felt I had horribly mis-played the hand at almost every point along the way. I am posting it in hopes of correcting a few mid-hand thought processes.

Seriously, please elaborate on why you recommend a different approach.

TIA.

[ThePershore]

[ QUOTE ]
By "don't understand" do you mean disagree with the reason I gave or are you asking me to elaborate? Both reasons I gave were what I was thinking at the time which is after sitting at that table for 2+ hours.

For what its worth, once it was over I felt I had horribly mis-played the hand at almost every point along the way. I am posting it in hopes of correcting a few mid-hand thought processes.

Seriously, please elaborate on why you recommend a different approach.

[/ QUOTE ]

~Well, you checked on a "relatively" safe flop for your hand given the range you assigned to him.

~Then when the Ace hits you overbet the pot, which makes no sense at all. Ax makes up a pretty good portion of his range no? So why are you repping the Ace now rather than betting the flop? What are you hoping he folds that you are beating? i.e. betting the turn for t4,000 seems really bad...

[uclabruinz]

Beachman,

I meant I would have done pretty much the opposite of what you did. How do you find out how much he likes his hand by checking the flop? Whatever hands you raise the BB with like this over a bunch of limpers you ought to be continuing out with against one caller pretty much regardless of the flop. Just bet 2k or whatever and see what he does. Pretty hard for him to bluff when you are repping a big hand on a K-high flop. There's 3k+ in the pot, just go get it.

But since you didn't do that, you now bet over half his remaining stack into the turn when there are now two overcards to your pair? What does this accomplish that a 2k bet wouldn't, except make it pretty lame/awkward when he calls or shoves.

Also I would like to see you raise more preflop over this many limpers with a hand like QQ.

[Beachman42]

[ QUOTE ]
Beachman,

I meant I would have done pretty much the opposite of what you did. How do you find out how much he likes his hand by checking the flop? Whatever hands you raise the BB with like this over a bunch of limpers you ought to be continuing out with against one caller pretty much regardless of the flop. Just bet 2k or whatever and see what he does. Pretty hard for him to bluff when you are repping a big hand on a K-high flop. There's 3k+ in the pot, just go get it.

But since you didn't do that, you now bet over half his remaining stack into the turn when there are now two overcards to your pair? What does this accomplish that a 2k bet wouldn't, except make it pretty lame/awkward when he calls or shoves.

Also I would like to see you raise more preflop over this many limpers with a hand like QQ.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks for the reasoning behind your line.

As I stated earlier, I felt really gross after the hand was over. I ended up betting 2K on the river and watched villian take 2 minutes to push his last 1K. At this point, I was committed to call and did saying "I guess I have to pay you off here since I F'ed up this hand so badly" In hindsight, this was probably the only correct decision I made in the hand & I was certain I was beat [img]/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img].

He tabled T-8 of spades and I won a big pot I didn't deserve.

In hindsight, betting the flop prolly would have ended the hand right there which would have been a better line/outcome than the one I chose.

[fsoyars]

With this many limpers and OOP you need to raise more pf, like 1400.

As stated, lead flop to see where you're at, like 2k.

As played, he has 7k behind, you can't bet 4k and then fold to his push. You can bet 2k and fold to his push and 2k accomplishes the same thing as 4k.

As played, I would c/c the river. You're committed to the rest of his stack after the 4k turn bet, but if you're beat he might check back his weak A or whatever and you save yourself 3k.

[Mench]

Just bet the flop and shut down if called. I hate turn line. Give up on river.

[Bakes]

lead flop to see where your at? what the [censored]